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O-H! UH-OH! Buckeyes to probe car sales to players and relatives

Jim Tressel, E. Gordon Gee

Well, here we go again.

Even as The Ohio State University is in the midst of a major quagmire created by the lies and cover-up of its head coach, now they may have yet another issue to deal with.  And one that the NCAA may very well have a significant interest in.

Prompted by a Columbus Dispatch investigation that began in 2007, the OSU’s associate athletic director and head of compliance told the paper that the school will take a look into the sale of at least 50 used vehicles to student-athletes — mainly football players — and their relatives.  According to the Dispatch‘s report, the probe will center on two Columbus dealerships — Jack Maxton Chevrolet and Auto Direct — and whether or not the players and/or their relatives were given deals not offered to the general public.  While the two dealerships are not connected and have different owners, Aaron Kniffin was a salesman at both businesses; the Dispatch describes Kniffin as the common thread in two dozen transactions.

Kniffin, if you recall, was the salesman whose name was connected to a previous investigation of vehicles being driven by quarterback Terrelle Pryor.  OSU cleared Pryor of any wrongdoing in that case.

And, at least for now, the OSU compliance official sees the same ending in this latest case.

“We’ll take a step back, we’ll take a look at the transactions and the values, and we’ll make some determinations in consultation with the (Big Ten) conference office and go from there,” Doug Archie told the paper.

“I have nothing to believe a violation has occurred.”

The report, which again can be viewed by clicking HERE, is very detailed and extensive but well worth the time it takes to pour over, but here are a few of the highlights — or lowlights, depending on the amount of scarlet & gray clothing littering your closet.

– Jack Maxton owner Jeff Mauk and Auto Direct owner Jason Goss were interviewed by Archie Friday and both individuals denied giving special treatment to players or their relatives.  The Dispatch reports that Goss and Kniffin attended seven football games — including the 2007 national championship and 2009 Fiesta Bowl — as guests of players who were members of the football team at the time.  Goss denied that he was a guest of any player to whom he sold a vehicle.

– For the biggest red flag from the entire potential situation unearthed by the Dispatch, we’ll allow the paper to spell it out here:

Public records show that in 2009, a 2-year-old Chrysler 300 with less than 20,000 miles was titled to then-sophomore linebacker Thaddeus Gibson. Documents show the purchase price as $0.

Mauk could not explain it. “I don’t give cars for free,” he said. Gibson said he was unaware the title on his car showed zero as the sales price. “I paid for the car, and I’m still paying for it,” he said, declining to answer further questions.

– Former running back Maurice Wells‘ mother, who lived in Maryland at the time, bought a vehicle from Kniffin while he was an employee of the Chevrolet dealership.  That transaction is one of the four dozen or so under investigation.

– The mother and brother of star quarterback Terrelle Pryor, suspended for the first five games of the 2011 season for receiving impermissible benefits in an unrelated case, also purchased vehicles from Kniffin.  The transactions involving the relatives of Pryor and Wells are three of the eight involving individuals related to current or former Buckeyes student-athletes.  Archie told the paper he was aware of all the transactions involving players being looked into by the Dispatch — the owners of the dealerships stated they routinely call Archie whenever an OSU athlete is going to purchase a vehicle from them — but he was not aware of the purchases made by the relatives of players.

– On so many players buying vehicles from one or two dealerships, Archie told the Dispatch that “[i]t’s something from a compliance perspective that I would rather not have.”  Two former NCAA investigators who requested anonymity told the paper that there’s cause for concern as they’ve never heard of so many athletes buying cars from the same salesman.

– Speaking of said salesman, Kniffin, who currently sells vehicles in another state, owes more than $130,000 to the IRS and his $570,000 Delaware County (Oh.) home is in foreclosure.

– If you take the the first “n” out of Kniffin, what are you left with?*

In and of itself, this latest situation casts Ohio State in a very negative light, at least in the short-term and until it’s proven one way or the other.  Add it on to the previous issues, however, and it doesn’t paint a pretty picture of the current state of the flagship football program of the state of Ohio.

At some point, the university is going to be forced to take a step back and take a hard look at not only head coach Jim Tressel, but Tressel’s boss, athletic director Gene Smith, as well.  Then again, if some of them did that, they’d have to worry about the coach dismissing them.  Right, Mr. Gee?

(*that was my point, not the Dispatch’s.  And it was a joke.  Lighten up people.)

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80 Responses to “O-H! UH-OH! Buckeyes to probe car sales to players and relatives”
  1. lbijake says: May 7, 2011 10:04 AM

    There should not be a problem here. The Vest stated that nothing illegal has occurred and I, for one, will take him at his word.

  2. TxGrown says: May 7, 2011 10:32 AM

    I too believe in Tressell has he ever lied before?

  3. WingT says: May 7, 2011 10:42 AM

    …and the plot thickens

  4. iamtalkingsolistenandlearn says: May 7, 2011 10:44 AM

    Ahh yes, you are correct Mr. John Taylor. HERE WE GO AGAIN.

    Look I think everyone with just an ounce of common sense and no biases(which eliminates all Buckeye fans) can agree there is certainly something fishy going on with those two dealerships and the football players.
    A 2 year old car purchased for $ 0 ????
    The dealerships’ owners attending Bowl games as guests of players?
    Even two NCAA investigators say they have never heard of so many cars being bought from the same dealerships.

    The OSU compliance officer says he found nothing wrong in his first investigation and already states he doesn’t think he weill find anything wrong in THIS investigation.

    So why isn’t anybody investigating the compliance officer? Seems to me he is is just “missing” too many clues.
    The compliance officer and the bowtied paymaster, ivestigate both of them and you will find the common threads to the dealership owners, cash to players, cars to players, and other “gifts”.
    Now I know the nutcase Buckeye fans will come out in force and deny, make excuses, do a Tressel, stick their head in the sand, or simply do what most do an go Nah Nah Nah Nah Nah Nah Nah, I CANT HEAR YOU, Nah Nah Nah

    But that will not change the facts. And the FACTS are is that OSU is the shadiest program in the USA, and the two main people running the football program are DEEP in the causes. A third person, who is in charge of self checking to keep the program clean is apparently in on the shadiness as well.
    This program needs the DEATH PENALTY. And their fans need a huge injection of reality and common sense.

  5. edgy says: May 7, 2011 10:53 AM

    There should not be a problem here. The Vest stated that nothing illegal has occurred and I, for one, will take him at his word.

    **************

    Ohio State has a form with his signature on it that makes you think that he shouldn’t always be taken at his word….

  6. tominma says: May 7, 2011 11:06 AM

    OSU has been VERY sucessful the last decade! This, along with other investigations, show why! The program is dirty, dirty DIRTY!!

    Of course, so is the NCAA, making fortunes on the backs of players that they dont share the money with! What scam!!

  7. jw731 says: May 7, 2011 11:15 AM

    This makes perfect sense, as Tressel has the same morals as a used car salesman. OSU is basically the SMU of the eighties, but the corrupt organization known as the NCAA will not do any harm to one of their major cash cows….

  8. seanmmartin says: May 7, 2011 11:24 AM

    Do we know if Jeff Mauk is the father of Ben Mauk, a former WF and Cincinnati QB?

    The Mauks are from Ohio…

  9. Deb says: May 7, 2011 11:31 AM

    Good grief … who did OSU tick off??? What led the NCAA to check the price total on that player’s pink slip? This explains why the NCAA has delayed announcing Tressel’s punishment until August. They’re still not finished investigating. If college players were compensated, perhaps they wouldn’t be as vulnerable to these situations.

    I feel bad for OSU fans, but perhaps the bad sports who constantly slobber about SEC corruption will get a clue that none of this is unique to the South … nor is it the reason SEC teams are successful.

    @iamtalking … No team deserves the death penalty.

  10. John Taylor says: May 7, 2011 11:32 AM

    Ben Mauk’s dad’s name is Mike.

  11. seanx40 says: May 7, 2011 11:37 AM

    This is it. The big one. The one that takes down the OSU football program. I believe they call that “lack of institutional control”. And it is going to be a beautiful thing to watch unfold. OSU having to forfeit entire seasons. Big Ten championships taken away. Loss of scholarships, or maybe the big one. Complete suspension of the football program. And most of us will laugh every step of the way.

  12. John Taylor says: May 7, 2011 11:47 AM

    @Deb: SMU deserved the death penalty. In fact, after what they did, they might’ve deserved getting the death penalty, being revived, then given the death penalty a second time.

  13. fatfreddystubbs says: May 7, 2011 11:55 AM

    As far as college football scandals go, free cars is sooooo 80’s. What’s next, that they got free Def Leppard tickets from Mike Damone?

  14. mogogo1 says: May 7, 2011 12:00 PM

    The really suspicious part is the relatives buying cars. Players are in Columbus most of the year, so they’d probably buy a car there. But there’s no reason relatives who live elsewhere would buy there UNLESS they were getting a sweetheart deal.

  15. tk1966 says: May 7, 2011 12:20 PM

    We can now see why Pryor eliminated Penn State from his final list of college choices. This kind of thing is not allowed (or encouraged) there.

  16. neyvit says: May 7, 2011 12:24 PM

    Less than half of the cars were below Blue Book value according to the article, and that’s without even knowing wreck and mechanical problems. Total of 50 cars averaging $11,600 from 2000 to 2007, with some having 100,000+ miles… for Buicks and Chevys. Does any of that sound like a discount?

    The problem here is that the salesman reported lower sales numbers to the state to skim on taxes and pocket the payments. I know its unfathomable to think that used car salesman are sleazy, but this seems to be more trouble to the car dealer than to the players.

  17. jw731 says: May 7, 2011 12:25 PM

    The NCAA loooked the other way when the U, basically “hired” a bunch of illiterate thugs, back in the 90’s, no way OSU gets a death penalty, they make these fat asses too much money, as did the U. This is a corrupt organization, who may put a fringe team on the death watch, as to act as if they have control, but no way a big ten, or SEC team gets nothing more than a stern warning….

  18. iamtalkingsolistenandlearn says: May 7, 2011 12:42 PM

    @ Deb

    John Taylor says:
    May 7, 2011 11:47 AM
    @Deb: SMU deserved the death penalty. In fact, after what they did, they might’ve deserved getting the death penalty, being revived, then given the death penalty a second time.

    *****************************************

    I have to agree with Mr. Taylor, the sound voice of reason.

    Rules were flagrantly broken, over and over. Punishment option Death Penalty was handed down appropriatly.

    Same issue here with :
    O verpaying
    S tudent Athletes
    U nder the table

    They continue to lie, deceive, “find nothing” , provide extra “benefits”, and fail to report.

    The state’s biggest community college deserves the Death Penalty, and as Mr. Taylor noted, given a second lethal injection after reviving.

    And Gorgon Gee should be forced to become the mascots for TCU and BCU. He already is the mascot for nerdiest crook alive

  19. iamtalkingsolistenandlearn says: May 7, 2011 12:44 PM

    @neyvit

    So what your really saying is;

    Nah Nah Nah I CANT HEAR YOU Nah Nah Nah !

  20. neyvit says: May 7, 2011 12:57 PM

    No, I am saying based on the numbers released, I don’t see “improper benefits” in the form of unusual discounts. Certainly the fact that so many players and family members bought from the same salesman is a huge concern — but that only matters if the numbers support the obvious assumption that they were getting very special treatment. As of now, it does not.

  21. Dave Dickson says: May 7, 2011 1:06 PM

    this kind of thing has been going on for years at big time programs all over the country. perhaps not at this magnitude or extent, but it’s been out there.

  22. seanmmartin says: May 7, 2011 1:33 PM

    Thanks, John. Should have checked Cincinnati’s site.

  23. jw731 says: May 7, 2011 1:36 PM

    remember when Pryor was the hottest commodity in the recruitment process….Obvious OSU paid him the most money, and that was what it was all about, but i guess this is just a lynch mob trying to take down a program so steeped in tradition, that their greatest coach resigned in shame after punching the same type of student athlete because he made a good play, and did what he was suppossed to do, instead of saying, nice play son, he punched him……Stay classy OSU

  24. John Taylor says: May 7, 2011 1:38 PM

    No worries. I only knew that because I know of his dad.

  25. dutchman1350 says: May 7, 2011 1:45 PM

    A few years ago Doug Worthington got a DUI on campus, while driving a $50k SUV….go figure the car was not titled in his name.

    NOTHING TO SEE HEAR, PLEASE MOVE ON.

  26. etoliverlee2 says: May 7, 2011 2:32 PM

    why do we need espn when when have the columbus dispatch . This cow town won’t be happy until ohio state is on a par with indiana.

  27. thefiesty1 says: May 7, 2011 3:14 PM

    And the NCAA is busy busting Boise State for $2.34 meals provided to recruits. Come on people. They need to camp out at the OSU and get this crap straightened out by removing Gee, Smith AND most importantly Tressel so Ohio State can start over.

  28. canetic says: May 7, 2011 3:14 PM

    Where there’s smoke there’s Buckeyes

  29. Deb says: May 7, 2011 3:26 PM

    @JT …

    I’m not excusing SMU, but I don’t believe in the Death Penalty for college athletic programs.

    NCAA sanctions, particularly the Death Penalty, punish the wrong people. Who suffers when a school is denied scholarships and the opportunity to participate in bowl games–or has its football program canceled for a year? The talented athletes who took money under the table move on to the pros or transfer to other big programs. Corrupt boosters lose a season but so do all the boosters who didn’t bribe anyone and so does an innocent student body. And the midline athletes who weren’t good enough to bribe are stuck there in sanction hell.

    Instead, the boosters caught paying out the money should be banned forever from attending games. The coaches and AD officials involved, if any, should be fired. And the athletes who took money should not be allowed to transfer or enter the NFL for one year. Give the guilty parties the Death Penalty, not the school.

  30. jw731 says: May 7, 2011 3:47 PM

    @deb….you think the NFL cares about the NCAA except for one weekend in late april?….This is their free from expenses farm league…….if a kid runs a 4.2 forty, you actually think the people who run a business care if he took money, when they wanna hire him to make money?….Seriously

  31. Deb says: May 7, 2011 4:10 PM

    @jw731 …

    I think I’m tired of you distorting my comments in your constant desperate attempts to make something out of them they’re not.

    I don’t care what the NFL thinks, wants, or does with NCAA players. Not allowing NCAA players who’ve taken bribes and who’ve caused their schools to be sanctioned to transfer or go to the NFL for a year is a punishment for them and doesn’t have a bloody thing to do with the NFL. I should think that would have been obvious in the context of my comment to anyone with an IQ about 4.

    Seriously.

  32. smokehouse56 says: May 7, 2011 4:14 PM

    I guess JoePa knew something we didn’t know.

  33. buckeyefan1026 says: May 7, 2011 4:16 PM

    @IamTYPINGsoREADandlearn

    I don’t understand why you keep referring to OSU as a community college. I guess you are implying they don’t have dorms, student housing or four year programs? Must be your attempt at being clever?

  34. stairwayto7 says: May 7, 2011 4:44 PM

    Thank you Pryor for not going to Penn State! You will never be a QB in the NFL, only a WR at best! Youa rwna overrated, overhyped player who will be known for taking down a university! Give OSU the death penalty!!!!

  35. jw731 says: May 7, 2011 6:48 PM

    @deb
    ummm……..aren’t you the one who brought the NFL into this thread…..Why should their earning potential be diminshed after they lose their amatuer status? life lesson? right thing to do?….even though my IQ may be 4, you think that will float in court?

  36. buckifan4life says: May 7, 2011 7:56 PM

    Who cares…

    Just win baby! :)

  37. halo81 says: May 7, 2011 7:58 PM

    Deb is about the most naive person when it comes to college football I think I’ve ever had the displeasure of reading comments from.

    While I find many of her posts about individual situations passionate and on point, when it comes to what goes on behind closed doors at universities and the punishments that should be handed out she’s obviously a “couch scout”. Then there is the obligatory “look, it’s not the SEC” line that I think she must have as a mantra or tattooed on here eyelids.

    Stick to talking about how upsetting it is that a player got injured Deb, that’s your strength. This is not.

    As for this situation and many like it, Ohio State doesn’t deserve the death penalty, but schools do deserve it.

    South Carolina is walking a very fine line right now and will be the next school that gets blown up after the Ohio State investigation, mark my words. They’ve got boosters in Southeastern Pennsylvania buying recruits left and right for G.A. Mangus and Steve Spurrier. The NCAA is just either understaffed or lazy as it’s been reported to them with evidence up to and included pictures and phone records. I won’t include names as I’m sure JT would take it down.

    These schools need to be punished.

    Now, where Deb is correct, but still misguided is that you don’t throw the death penalty around.

    The school is going to be punished whether it’s the death penalty or what USC got. There’s no difference. If a coach or athletic director is involved, they’re involved. This isn’t Happy Land where the NCAA separates six individuals and all is well. The football program is nailed and then the school suffers financially. Tough crap. That’s why your institution has a compliance office.

    Saying the school shouldn’t get in trouble is like saying major corporations shouldn’t be shut down by the government when their controlling officers and presidents are committing fraud because “it hurts everyone, even the door man.”

    Which brings me back to my point, naive.

    College football is a business whether or not you want to get that through your head or not. And don’t feed me the “these kids play for the love of the game” crap either.

    That’s about 10-percent of them. I was one of them, I know them now, I talk to them now, I handle them when they’re drafted. They’re there for three years and out if possible for the most part.

    This isn’t a story book, it’s reality.

  38. wvugrad00 says: May 7, 2011 8:02 PM

    If the NCAA does not abolutly hammer OSU then they are a bigger shamer than I thought.

  39. edgy says: May 7, 2011 8:17 PM

    Deb, the Death Penalty NEEDS to be used. I don’t know if you feel sorry for what happened to SMU but the fact is that sanctions weren’t working. At that time of the new allegations, they were already on 3 years probation, which included a bowl ban AND a television ban. Did they learn from that — hell and NO. Not only that but they did their best not to be cooperative and the NCAA was forced into making an example of them and leaving them with a lasting impression about how much they wanted them to stop their crap.

    Some people blame the NCAA for what happened to them but that’s stupid. They responded as badly to the situation as Alabama did and they hired a squeaky clean guy with NO college experience like the Tide did with Shula and he gave way to a series of bad hires (at least Alabama woke up and went after a REAL HC after they got rid of Shula) and it wasn’t until they finally got smart and went after June Jones that they turned the corner. Had they made a play for a power coach AFTER Gregg, they would have been able to get back on track but they didn’t and people point at them as a reason why the NCAA shouldn’t use the Death Penalty. I point at them as a reason WHY they should use it because programs that go rogue don’t come back to Jesus until they’ve spent some real time in the penalty box.

  40. gatorprof says: May 7, 2011 8:21 PM

    How much more embarrassment does OSU have to suffer before flushing Gee, Smith, and the Vest?

    At some point the adults in charge have to wake up and hit reset. OSU is bigger than a corrupt football coach and his two enablers.

  41. John Taylor says: May 7, 2011 8:50 PM

    One more thing when it comes to SMU: that was not simply a matter of boosters running amuck; that was boosters running amuck with the full knowledge and support of those in the athletic department. The fact that it involved people of power at the university left the NCAA zero choice, especially as “issues” had been ongoing at SMU since the mid-seventies before the NCAA put the uber-hammer down in 1986.

  42. daveincleveland says: May 7, 2011 10:07 PM

    College players getting perks? I am shocked and appalled.

    I love how lots of people are talking in this thread like this kind of stuff is isolated to the campus of OSU. Are y’all seriously that naive?

  43. dkhhuey says: May 7, 2011 11:09 PM

    Perhaps, unlike most on here, I’ll wait until the actual facts come out and a ruling is published prior to trashing the entire program and saying it deserves the death penalty.

  44. buzhwa2001 says: May 7, 2011 11:51 PM

    “The report, which again can be viewed by clicking HERE, is very detailed and extensive but well worth the time it takes to pour over…”

    this should be “pore over”, yes?

  45. waynefontes says: May 7, 2011 11:59 PM

    tk1966 says:
    May 7, 2011 12:20 PM
    We can now see why Pryor eliminated Penn State from his final list of college choices. This kind of thing is not allowed (or encouraged) there.
    ————————————————–

    Of course not. Penn State players generally break the law as opposed to NCAA rules.

    The difference between Ohio State and Penn State is that Ohio State is actually relevant in college football. And I don’t even like Ohio State.

  46. dafool99 says: May 8, 2011 2:38 AM

    SMU got the “death penalty” because they were put on probation, and during that “probation” period, they continued to do what they what they were doing.

    I feel like they need to lose scholarships… have tv and bowl games stripped for a couple of years.

    If they continue with the inappropriate activities while on this probation, then u give them the “death penaly”!

    Don’t take away games. You can’t tell me that a game i watched, didn’t happen!

    “The Vest” should be fired, and the players who are in trouble now should be ineligible for this upcoming season. Since they already played a full year in which they were ineligible… Which makes Pryor’s college career over, because you should not be able to redshirt if on suspension!

  47. buckeyebeliever1111 says: May 8, 2011 7:59 AM

    ALL the mauks in Ohio are dirty this is no surprise!!

  48. dutchman1350 says: May 8, 2011 8:35 AM

    The NCAA should make them play all their games AWAY with TV blackout. That will penalize the school, boosters.

  49. dalionking says: May 8, 2011 8:38 AM

    If college players were compensated, perhaps they wouldn’t be as vulnerable to these situations.

    I am sick of hearing this. College athletes can NEVER, EVER be paid. It’s not possible. Everyone has to have the same opportunity so if a football player at Michigan or USC gets money then so would the swimmers and girls softball team. All women sports, track and field, swimming, most baseball, hockey and soccer would all be canceled. They don’t make money. If you honestly believe that the athletes are not getting money and much more you are delusional.

    Oh and you really think even a $1000 per month would stop this when they can have more? They get schooling, books, meals, housing and more. What did you get in college?

  50. 78lion says: May 8, 2011 8:38 AM

    @Deb: SMU deserved the death penalty. In fact, after what they did, they might’ve deserved getting the death penalty, being revived, then given the death penalty a second time.

    John, If you believe they were the only program in the SWC doing the exact same thing, I have a bridge you might want to buy.

  51. iamtalkingsolistenandlearn says: May 8, 2011 9:21 AM

    78Lion says:

    “John, If you believe they were the only program in the SWC doing the exact same thing, I have a bridge you might want to buy.”

    ******************************************

    OMG, you sound like a Patriots fan.

    Just because other teams were doing it doesn’t make it right!!!!!!!
    The other teams didn’t get caught, SMU DID!!!

  52. burntorangehorn says: May 8, 2011 9:47 AM

    In terms of the seriousness of these violations and the apparent knowledge and cover-up by the school, how much more serious should the penalties be for tOSU than they were for USC?

    I’m guessing the punishment comes down much more quickly for the buckeyes than they did for the Trojans, and that they’re much harsher. While Ohio State’s not going to lose any (claimed) national championships, they’ll obviously have to surrender some conference and bowl championships as well as vacate some wins.

    The death penalty is not going to happen. It’s a program-killer, and the NCAA won’t do that again. Thing is, though, teams come out of non-DP penalties too quickly, as Alabama did after the slap on the wrist for the Shula violations. USC lost ten scholarships per season for three seasons, and has a two-year post-season ban, and they’ll probably be fine again almost immediately after that ends. Ohio State is a big mess, though, and I would think it needs to be at least 15 lost scholarships for three or four years, plus a three-year post-season ban.

  53. edgy says: May 8, 2011 10:37 AM

    Well, I’m not going to say that tOSU deserves anything BUT if the allegations prove to be true (and seriously, this doesn’t look good), Tressel is REALLY going to regret lying to the NCAA because THIS on top of THAT will hurt them big time and the school will have no choice but to Pearl him at the altar of the NCAA to keep from getting really screwed.

  54. edgy says: May 8, 2011 11:01 AM

    burntorangehorn says:

    *********************

    There were no “Shula” violations at Alabama. What happened there was university wide and it affected his term AND Saban’s. The real crap at Alabama happened before Shula.

  55. parkcityute says: May 8, 2011 2:58 PM

    Say it is not so, Ohio State! Say is not so! Lies, deceit, free cars (sounds like I heard this somewhere else before and they received the “Death Penalty”), and it goes on….and on…..and on.

    A patient can only hemorrhage just so long before he is dead. Is he dead yet?

    I felt sorry for OSU which has a great and huge university system but this seems to be more widespread and endemic than anything anyone thought before.

    All this together could be a real big blow for THEE Ohio State University football program.

  56. edgy has an obsession with buckeyeboy being a young girl says: May 8, 2011 4:20 PM

    its not all terrible, though

    if something extreme happens to OSU, the fans will always be back

    OSU has the most dedicated, rabid, supportive fanbase in the nation. who else would tear apart an announcer because he doesnt support his former university? who else riots with a win, riots with a loss, and riots for the hell of it? who else makes visiting the stadium such a nightmare for opposing fans?

    sit back, make your jokes, but please do remember that you will never have the fanbase that OSU does

  57. downhillrider says: May 9, 2011 12:58 AM

    As much as I truely dislike OSU it seems like things are starting to pile on. i kinda feel for the guys who are going to school and keeping out of trouble.

    That said I think Tressell (sp) and the AD need to go. The longer they delay the inevitable the worse it will get. I hope they looked at the mess that the Coach and AD at USC made.

    Just dont hire Rich Rodriguez…….

  58. Deb says: May 9, 2011 11:50 AM

    To paraphrase Harry Nilsson, everybody’s talkin’ at me … and I have a migraine. But here goes …

    @jw731 … Life is short, and I generally prefer spending mine talking to two-legged creatures, so this is the last time I’ll address you on this subject because you’re just trying to be an annoying ass. I’ve posted many times on what a lovely farm system the NCAA supplies the NFL. But that arrangement should buy the NCAA a little leverage with the Big Boys. When players are caught taking payoffs (I’m not talking about trading autographs for tats), the NCAA should be able to work out an arrangement so those players cannot immediately jump to the NFL (or transfer to another school), thus escaping any of sanctions they’ve brought on their college program. They should be suspended and prohibited from transferring or entering the draft for one year.

    And I support paying college players and allowing them to profit from the merchandising of their names and images. That wouldn’t eliminate bribing, but it would help.

    @JT and halo81 …

    I did not just fall off the turnip truck and am probably the least naive person you’re likely to encounter, but halo, it’s sweet that you find me so unworldly. I’m thoroughly familiar with SMU’s history of misdeeds, unsuccessful sanctions, and the fact that the boosters were working hand-in-glove with the Athletic Department.

    My argument against the Death Penalty and the way sanctions are currently handled is that too many snakes slither out of the trap while too many innocents reap what the bad guys have sown.

    Sanctions affect the school after the offending athletes leave. The offenders are not punished at all. Should it be proved that Auburn paid Cam Newton, Auburn’s current players and students will pay the price. Cam will be reaping millions in the NFL. If Auburn receives the Death Penalty, Alabama and its fans will lose the Iron Bowl. We didn’t pay Cam Newton. Why punish us?

    Yes, halo, these problems are pervasive throughout college sports (Yes, in the SEC, but no, not just the SEC, darlin’. SMU wasn’t in the SEC and neither is Southern Cal or OSU. Sorry if you don’t like it when I post that, but it is the truth, like it or not). Yes, John, SMU had been sanctioned for years and it didn’t stop the problem. Naivete (or more accurately insanity ;) ) is continuing to do the same thing expecting different results.

    If we want to fix the problem, we need a different approach.

    Who pays the players? Big-money boosters. Instead of giving a school the Death Penalty, give it to the boosters. If offending boosters are banned for life from attending the games of their precious schools, that will make other boosters think twice about paying players. It’s called a deterrent.

    Yes, fellas, they have help from the coaches and AD departments. My suggestion there was to FIRE THOSE INDIVIDUALS. That’s also a deterrent.

    And the players who take the bribes? When it can be proved while they’re still at the schools, suspend them for a year while preventing them from jumping to the NFL. Since, halo, I’m well aware any players good enough to bribe are playing for a shot at the NFL and not for love of the game, a year’s suspension of their NFL dream would be a BIG DETERRENT, wouldn’t it?

    Instead, you guys just want to sanction “the program,” while the actual culprits get off scot-free. Excuse me, but who’s naive?? :roll:

  59. usnbrownsfan says: May 9, 2011 1:05 PM

    i like how people say buckeye fans can’t comment because they’re biased… the people saying it tend to dislike the buckeyes, therefore making them biased too, but they’re too dumb to understand it.

  60. edgy says: May 9, 2011 1:06 PM

    Deb, you really can’t be serious. Just who are you going to sanction? Tell me how the NCAA was going to do ANYTHING to ANYONE at SMU that was involved when most, if not all of them were already gone AND let’s be straight about this, when SMU got the DP, their players were allowed to move on to other programs AND some of those that moved on, were part of the problem so they got to escape anything that hurt the program. If anything, the DP hurt the school more than it did the “innocent” players because they got to leave.

  61. Deb says: May 9, 2011 4:20 PM

    edgy …

    Go back and read that post. It is self-explanatory. I’m tired of making straightforward statements and having people convolute them for fun. If all the guilty parties had already moved on, why give the school the Death Penalty? Who were they punishing? A student body that had nothing to do with it. That’s my point. Apparently you guys have lost all sight of the student body that attends a school or how those students might be hurt by sanctions. Those are the innocent kids I’m referencing. :roll:

    Let me try this again

    At least two of these groups are involved in all recruiting violations and pay-for-play:
    1. boosters who provide the funds.
    2. school personnel who facilitate the transactions.
    3. players who take the money.

    I say …

    1. Ban involved boosters from attending games for life.
    2. Fire involved coaches and school personnel.
    3. Suspend from play for one year any players still in the NCAA. Do not allow them to transfer to another school. Work out an arrangement with the NFL so they cannot go pro for one year.

    If the boosters have died, the school personnel have quit, and the players are already in the NFL, then you are SOL. No plan is perfect.

    But quit screwing with the student body years after the people who broke the rules are gone.

    GOT IT?

  62. edgy says: May 9, 2011 7:55 PM

    Deb, that’s hooey. Seriously, just HOW do you propose to make this all happen — invent a time machine and send the investigators back so they can retroactively punish these people? Even if you don’t allow those with eligibility to move on, you can’t — repeat — can’t do anything about those that don’t have any more eligibility left. What are you going to do, take away their degrees? (Stop, please, my sides hurt too much from that one). Hey, the ONLY way to do ANYTHING is after the fact. There’s NOTHING that the NCAA can do to these guys who are no longer students so that ONLY thing that they can do is go after the school and if “innocent” people have to suffer — so be it. The UPSIDE to punishing a rogue school is that if you make it tough, other rogue schools will think twice about going rogue (Unless they’re Palin U). The DP is there as a deterrent and if you don’t pull it out and use it every once in a while, schools are going to take their chances.

  63. Deb says: May 9, 2011 9:53 PM

    @edgy …

    You really must take a remedial reading course. I’m not proposing to go back in time and do anything. I’m talking about going forward. My comment clearly is addressing players still eligible or who have not yet been drafted by the NFL. And I specifically say that if the players have already left, then it won’t be possible to punish them. Well, actually I didn’t say that. I said SOL, assuming you’d know what that means. Apparently you don’t.

    Now I’m splitting my sides laughing. :lol:

  64. edgy says: May 10, 2011 1:13 PM

    Deb, you offered NOTHING that does anything that’s different from what is already there or can’t you see that? The NCAA can already ban boosters, make sure that personnel are fired AND keep players from transferring. Your solution would seem to be the same old, same old EXCEPT you want to exempt schools from punishment because the ONLY WAY to keep the current “innocent” players from being unfairly punished is to NOT punish the school — again, you’d have to go back in time and punish the school AT THE TIME that the violations happened, in order to accomplish that. Other than that, you HAVE to punish the school and the “innocent” players. You talk about not wanting to screw with the student body years after it happens but just what does your plan do except let the school off because nearly all of this goes unnoticed until years after the fact so you’re forced into punishing the student body long after the fact. The only thing left to do in real time is just to put the school in the slammer then and there and make them prove their innocence but then what would be the point because they could never get back that lost time.

    Oh and you really think that the NFL would do something this dumb? Seriously, they BARELY care about drugs and that’s ONLY because of the media, Congress and the fans who are eating up the media’s crap. If no one made a big deal out of it, the NFL would allow them to inject dog urine if it gave them an advantage. The owners DON’T want something like this AND the NFLPA DEFINITELY doesn’t want it.

  65. Deb says: May 10, 2011 2:53 PM

    edgy …

    I’m not a violent woman. But if I lived with you, one of us would not get out of there alive, and I don’t like your chances. A cast-iron skillet can be a powerful weapon.

  66. edgy says: May 10, 2011 6:35 PM

    Deb, my uncles found out that a cast iron skillet doesn’t work as well as you think.

  67. gatorfan1 says: May 10, 2011 6:50 PM

    @Edgy:

    Obviously your dad found as well!! You’re here…

  68. dkhhuey says: May 11, 2011 11:49 AM

    @Deb – you are attempting to argue / debate with a troll and a moron. Its best just to ignore and move on!

  69. Deb says: May 11, 2011 12:12 PM

    @dkhhuey …

    Actually, edgy has exceptional knowledge about both the NFL and the college game, and their histories. But he loves to argue. When I’ve had enough, I let him know … as I did with the skillet comment. So I have moved on.

  70. edgy says: May 11, 2011 12:52 PM

    Baby Huey, just tell me where my argument is wrong.

    Deb, it’s not a matter of loving to argue but let me ask you why you suddenly decided to play the skillet card than actually address the fact that your recommendations are already part of the NCAA’s powers and the only thing that you want to do is exempt the schools from any actual punishment, all in the name of “innocent” students…

  71. edgy says: May 11, 2011 1:36 PM

    BTW, Deb, in honor of its critics, the NCAA is now going to have an event for the media just like they have for them when it came to the NCAA selection (Which opened up the eyes of a lot of their critics). They plan on compressing a violation event down to 6 hours to give them a chance to see the process and how they would proceed with the event. Expect to see some write ups after the media gets a chance to see how “easy” it is to be the NCAA when it comes to investigating the schools.

  72. Deb says: May 12, 2011 7:35 PM

    edgy says:
    let me ask you why you decided to play the skillet card than address that your recommendations are already part of the NCAA’s powers and you want to exempt the schools from punishment, in the name of “innocent” students…

    ————–
    Honestly felt I had addressed it multiple times. I’ve got a lot going on right now, and can’t read and write long posts rehashing the same stuff.

    The student body is innocent in all this–no need to use the quote marks. As you mentioned in a recent post, Shula and Saban were under sanctions for things that happened before they were hired–which means their players were sanctioned for things that happened before they arrived. Some of those kids may have had no hope of making the NFL but dreamed all their lives of playing for Bama only to be denied a bowl because they were being punished for things done by others. edgy, that’s not right. It’s not fair for Bama fans like me in Florida and those around the country to be denied seeing their games televised because of something done by a handful of people long gone from the university.

    Punish the boosters who do it, fire the employees who do it, and if possible, punish the players involved. But don’t punish the school. That’s like administering chemo–it kills good cells as well as cancer. It’s just not right. “The school” didn’t do anything–people did. Punish the appropriate people if it means cleaning house.

    Wish they’d make that NCAA thing into a documentary like the 30 on 30 series. I’m not thrilled with ESPN’s sportcasting anymore, but their documentaries are still excellent.

  73. edgy has an obsession with buckeyeboy being a young girl says: May 12, 2011 7:56 PM

    deb now you know that edgy is a dumba**

    he doesnt read what anyone else says, then decides you dont read what he says, and when you do and call him out on it, he claims that you are putting words into him mouth

    generally just a pos

  74. edgy has an obsession with buckeyeboy being a young girl says: May 12, 2011 7:58 PM

    deb I hope everything is working out in alabama and the rest of the south with the flood waters

    it is sad to see so much flooded, then to hear on the news that some places may have higher flooding

  75. Deb says: May 12, 2011 11:11 PM

    @buckeyeboy …

    Thank you. Things are still bad in Tuscaloosa–many neighborhoods were completely wiped out. But Bama should be safe from this flooding. southernpatriots and our other LSU friends are at risk. It’s especially bad for Mississippi, Arkansas, and Tennessee, which also suffered tornado damage. Here in Florida, we’re in the middle of a relentless drought. Every day, we’re praying for rain. So ironic.

  76. latrobe21 says: May 13, 2011 8:42 AM

    Maybe the hundreds of dealerships between Jeannette and Monroeville didn’t have the color car that Prior’s mama and bro were looking for . . .

  77. edgy says: May 13, 2011 12:33 PM

    Deb, you’re NOW making it quite clear that this is about the Tide and their foibles than it is about the NCAA. I would be willing to bet that if the Tide had actually kept their noses clean then you might be singing a different tune. No, you didn’t address the issue OTHER than to say that you would exempt schools from being punished — PERIOD.

    Oh and sorry, Deb but there were no innocents when it came to what happened with Saban since the sanctions were for things that the “innocent” student body did and some of the things that happened were under him, which is why he lost 5 games and Shula lost 16. NOT that it was his fault but that it happened on his watch. You can deny what I just said BUT if you want, I will provide proof that the text book scandal happened under Shula and continued through Saban’s first year and that’s why they both got sanctioned (and none of that resulted in the team being denied a bowl. Shula’s team was denied one year but he lost his wins because of what happened on his watch while Saban’s team has gone to a bowl for every year since he’s been there so there was no loss for you Tide fans for what the “innocent” players did and FYI, the Tide went to a bowl for 3 of Shula’s 4 years and would have NEVER gone to a bowl, had they been eligible that other year unless you believe that a 4-9 SEC really does deserve to go to a bowl — so again, no real punishment for the Tide – unless it was to have to watch Shula coach down the Tide. For the last 8 years, the Tide have gone to 7 bowls and would have NEVER gone to a bowl in the year that they were sanctioned).

  78. Deb says: May 13, 2011 6:15 PM

    Wrong again, edgy. I feel the same way about Auburn. If Auburn is later proved to have paid Cam Newton, then punish the boosters, punish the coaches. Cam is out of reach. But leave the students alone. Don’t deny television berths and bowl games to kids who came into the program after the fact and didn’t do anything wrong OR TO AUBURN STUDENTS AND FANS WHO DIDN’T PAY OR TAKE MONEY AND THEREFORE SHOULDN’T HAVE TO SHARE THE PUNISHMENT OF THOSE THAT DID.

    I’ve said the same thing how many times now? And you just keep screaming as though I don’t understand what’s coming out of my own keyboard. I’m not a stupid woman, edgy. I know exactly what I’m saying and why I’m saying it. No, it’s not about Bama. I tried to use your own words as an example because I thought that might sink in. How silly of me. Just like I tried to tell you I’ve got a lot going on and don’t feel like becoming embroiled in another of your endless diatribes. You can’t hear that, either.

    My opinion–WHICH I’M ENTITLED TO HOLD–stands. Instead of screaming at me, go scream at the walls in your shower … while you soak your head.

    Be glad my skillet and I are in Florida.

  79. Deb says: May 13, 2011 6:18 PM

    @dkhhuey …

    I’m a big girl and can decide for myself who is a troll and who I do or do not want to talk with. If you hadn’t given me that condescending talking to about edgy, I wouldn’t have felt the need to defend myself by telling you threatening to hit him in the head with a skillet mean I had moved on … which did nothing but give him an opportunity to suck me back in.

    Men!

  80. edgy says: May 13, 2011 11:28 PM

    Deb, when I scream at you, you’ll know it. THIS IS SCREAMING AND YOU KNOW IT. But with the exception of a few capitalized words for emphasis, I haven’t screamed at you. I know that you know what you’re saying but you’re also not saying anything except that you feel that no one needs to be punished because the fact is that unless you can actually go back in time, it’s IMPOSSIBLE to punish these people until it’s happened and coming up with a system that doesn’t punish the “innocent” is impossible UNLESS you don’t punish any one. Oh and given how much that USC has suffered, you’d think that I’d be sympathetic but I believe that the only way that they will learn is to pay the price. Because of that, Garrett is no longer around and Haden has them back on track. I don’t believe in “innocent” anyone in these violations — just people who haven’t been caught. BTW, in the military, PEER pressure is often used as a punishment tool and if an idiot won’t learn from his punishment then an entire group EXCEPT that person is punished and while it’s left unsaid, THEY know that a blanket party is the order of the day and if it takes more than one, it will happen but that person eventually gets the message. Now, if YOU are tired of “innocent” people at Alabama being punished then put pressure on school by organizing these “innocent” people to force the school into doing the right thing instead of finding itself it trouble so much.

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