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BMV probe finds no wrongdoing in vehicle purchases by OSU players

Terrelle Pryor Vehicle

After months and months of negativity, the beleaguered Ohio State football program is finally on the receiving end of some good news Tuesday morning.  Probably.

According to the Associated Press, the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles has determined that the purchases of dozens vehicles at a pair of Columbus dealerships by football players and family members were on the up and up.  The investigation conducted by the BMV found that the purchases, the AP writes, accurately reflected the vehicles’ sales prices.

The Columbus Dispatch reports that the 65-page report issued by the BMV concluded that the dealerships turned a profit on 24 of the 25 vehicle purchases the bureau investigated.  The report, the Dispatch states, did not examine whether the prices that OSU players paid involved discounts not available to the general public.

The BMV launched its probe into the “situation” on the heels of reports that at least 50 OSU players/family members had possibly received deals because of their status as athletes, which would violate NCAA bylaws.

OSU’s head of NCAA compliance, Doug Archie, said at the time that the reports first surfaced this past March  he has seen “nothing to believe a violation has occurred.”  Based on the results of the BMV’s investigation, that appears to be the case.

“Today’s report from the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles supports the sworn statements two Columbus auto dealers provided us that the manner in which they conducted sales with Ohio State student athletes adhered to university and NCAA rules,” Archie said in a statement released today.

What this doesn’t mean, however, is that the Buckeyes are out of the NCAA woods entirely.  An investigation is still ongoing into the upwards of eight vehicles former quarterback Terrelle Pryor drove during his time in Columbus, including a couple/few loaner vehicles from the dealerships in question.  Additionally, there have been subsequent reports that members of the football program, including current ones, may have been on the receiving end of impermissible benefits outside of vehicles.

And then there’s the possibility that the NCAA could also determine during the course of their own investigation that the players/family received deals not available to the general public, despite the BMV’s overwhelmingly positive report.

But, still, and at least for now, the members of the OSU athletic/compliance can breathe a huge sigh of relief.  Until the next revelation surfaces.  Or the Aug. 12 hearing in front of the NCAA’s Committee on Infractions.  Whichever comes first.

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72 Responses to “BMV probe finds no wrongdoing in vehicle purchases by OSU players”
  1. edgy says: Jun 21, 2011 10:56 AM

    The head of the BMV, a Buckeye season ticket holder and a member of the OSU class of ’75, was quite clear that these purchases were completely legal and none of the players received any favoritism from the dealer. :)

  2. motherscratcher23 says: Jun 21, 2011 10:59 AM

    It’s a good thing that the media didn’t spend the last 3 months reporting these allegations as if they were proven facts. Because that might have been irresponsible.

    You know, if anything like that had happened. Which it clearly didn’t.

  3. crimhollingsworth says: Jun 21, 2011 11:05 AM

    All 25 players probably had the same credit score.

  4. dexterismyhero says: Jun 21, 2011 11:06 AM

    @motherscratcher23 says:
    Jun 21, 2011 10:59 AM
    ==================================
    And the BMV is the most organized division of all of the government run programs and always knows what is going on!!!!!

    You dolt…………..prolly a tattoo parlor in the back of it also…..

  5. jw731 says: Jun 21, 2011 11:08 AM

    wow…..a big sigh of relief from Columbus, maybe they will rehire Tressel, bring back Pryor, and the recruits soon to bolt……This certainly brings back the intregrity, to the program circleing in the bowl……..If anyone can cook the books, it’s a car dealer

  6. motherscratcher23 says: Jun 21, 2011 11:16 AM

    @dexterguy

    Astounding analysis. I didn’t realize until right now how deep the conspiracy ran.

    Obviously this is all a big scam because, and this is just coming to light, everyone in Ohio is in on it, and has been from the beginning.

  7. cleanslaton says: Jun 21, 2011 11:43 AM

    This still doesn’t answer the question of where the players got the money to pay for the cars.

    IT WOULD BE A HORRIBLE BUSINESS MODEL TO LOSE MONEY ON 25 OUT OF 25 TRANSACTIONS.

    I’m sure some the purchases were legit, but not all of them. Quit deluding yourselves, buckeyes.

  8. motherscratcher23 says: Jun 21, 2011 11:53 AM

    @cleanslaton

    Where does anyone get money to pay for a used car? Lots of college kids, myself included had and have cars. Why would it be any different if you are a football player? Where to the players in any program…USC, Florida, Auburn, UM, Nebraska…get money to pay for their cars? Or do you think that none of the players at any other schools drive cars? Or does being a football player somehow preclude you from being allowed to own a car?

    And, it clearly states in the report that the dealers profited on 24/25 of the car deals. The remaining one was sold at a loss due to the length of time it was on the lot, which is standard practice BTW.

    Just because you WANT this to somehow be dirt on the OSU football program doesn’t mean that it is.

  9. Deb says: Jun 21, 2011 12:20 PM

    How sad that some of the most holier-than-thou commenters are upset at a finding that some allegations against a university football program are untrue. So you guys wanted Ohio State to be guilty of every allegation and wanted the program to face the stiffest possible penalties?

    My jw731 … how Christian of you.

  10. paulbrownsrevenge says: Jun 21, 2011 12:41 PM

    this will all come down to a few players in an isolated incident. Pryor, Herron, Adams, Posey, and coach Tressel are the ones responsible, and I’m not convinced Ohio State will get worse punishment than USC. Who treated Reggie Bush much better than OSU treated Pryor. Bush was given cars, money, a beach house for his family, Ray Jays scraps…. etc. Pryor hacked some stuff for tattoos, and might have gotten a discounted car. Watch the south park episode Crack Baby Athletic association. Explains THE NCAA to a T.

  11. paulbrownsrevenge says: Jun 21, 2011 12:44 PM

    NCAA college football 12 is set for release july 12th, and will sell millions of copies at $60 a pop. anyone who plays that game can see how the NCAA is hypocritical. the players correct height weight, homestate, equipment, jersey number, year of eligibility…… the list goes on. they make a fortune of these kids in a video game….. thats not to mention TV contracts.

  12. edgy says: Jun 21, 2011 12:53 PM

    Deb, the sanctions are going to be bad and this wouldn’t make them any worse. The only thing left to pile on is the Death Penalty and I don’t see the NCAA pulling it out (If they wouldn’t use it against USC or Alabama, they’re NOT going to pull it out against tOSU).

  13. paulbrownsrevenge says: Jun 21, 2011 1:04 PM

    College football is a business. It generates More money than it ever has. It’s more popular than ever. it’s market is much broader then the NFL. The big problem plain and simple is that College Football really became popular fast 15 years ago, and the NCAA did not know how to handle it. The NCAA is a business. College is a business. How much money do universities make off of kids that dont graduate. How are these institutions any different from a predatory lender??? They have a great thing going right now, but the media and its obsession with scandals is working on destroying football. Lets go back the way it was over a decade ago. let the media cover the games. let the local newspapers report players screwing up.

  14. Deb says: Jun 21, 2011 1:06 PM

    @edgy …

    So far, all we have is some kids trading memorabilia for cash and tattoos–which the NCAA knew about last year. The NCAA already handed down the punishment for those infractions: a five-game suspension deferred to the start of the 2011 season. Then it was learned that the coach knew in advance about the infractions and lied to the NCAA. That is a major violation, but he’s been fired (resigned). So the guy who committed the major infraction is gone. The original infraction–kids trading merchandise–hasn’t changed. The accusations about the cars have largely proved untrue, although they’re still investigating Pryor.

    Have I missed something? Were there other infractions?

    If we’re still talking about that silly tattoo stuff, they’ve already handed down the punishment for that. If we’re talking about what Tressel knew and covered up, he’s gone … fired … lost his career. They can’t do anything more to him but lock him up or hang him from the nearest tree.

    So unless they find out something else about Pryor, why would they need to do something else to Ohio State? I don’t understand.

  15. paulbrownsrevenge says: Jun 21, 2011 1:09 PM

    edgy, i think your right. im a buckeyes fan and this all sucks for me. Until or if we know all the facts, its hard to say exactly what will happen. i think what usc and pete carroll did was much worse, so i cant picture osu getting hit that hard. I dont think they will get failure to comply, due the the players being the source of the problem. tressel messed up by not suspending them for the bowl game. if he does that, then suspends them for the first 3 games, this is all water under the bridge.

  16. edgy says: Jun 21, 2011 1:37 PM

    Deb, stop trying to downplay this with the red herring of the tats. Tressel’s part in all of this is a killer and if Tennessee, which didn’t come to Jesus until the SEC stepped in, gets screwed because of their coach’s lies on MINOR infractions, gets screwed then you can bet that tOSU, which wasn’t brought to Jesus by ANYONE, will get it just as bad.

    Oh and the issue about the tats is far from over because the NCAA only dealt with the issue based on the fact that it was something that the university only found out about before the bowl. Because Tressel KNEW that they were guilty and played ineligible players DURING the season, that puts the entire season into jeopardy and ironically, may mean that their official record would end up being 1-12, with the only win being the bowl.

    The issue with Pryor is also going to kill them because I don’t think that he runs from town unless it’s ahead of the posse like Pete Carroll. He put up with a lot of crap from the natives and you can’t tell me that the pressure of being one of the ones responsible for Tressel’s demise got to him because if it did then he’s not going to be able to handle the NFL because the pressure there is far worse. Also, his teammates are also under the gun for being “responsible” for what happened to Tressel and yet, they’re still there. Either they’ve got more fortitude than Pryor OR they don’t have to worry about being ineligible because they took $20k+ from a Columbus photog.

    The only thing that I’m think about was that this automobile investigation isn’t going to make it worse because it’s going to be bad and if it isn’t then it wouldn’t make it any worse because if the NCAA overlooks what happened so far then they’re not going to be sway by this.

  17. soflatrojan says: Jun 21, 2011 1:47 PM

    Paulbrown,

    USC did not give Reggie anything a wannabe agent gave him and his family gifts. This is the first I have heard about the beach house. Growing up in San Diego I can tell you the house where RB’s parents lived is far from a beach house. This also all happened about 150 miles from USC.

    I don’t care what happens to tOSU but the NCAA never proved USC had any knowledge when it came to RB. In their report it stated Todd McNair should have know what was going on. Then they created the rule about monitoring high profile athletes. I am not defending USC because they were probably cheating just like everyone else. But they have way more evidence on tOSU.

  18. motherscratcher23 says: Jun 21, 2011 2:24 PM

    @Edgy

    Were you listening to the Deb’s story?

    Deb is absolutely right. The NCAA has no knowledge of any other offenses as of right now other than what has already been reported. Regardless of what transpired prior, the NCAA went to CBus in January and were granted complete access and cooperation. They have concluded their investigation and the next step is the hearing scheduled for August.

    There is literally nothing new. The players “uncovered” in the poorly source SI article have been cleared. The car deals have been proven to be legit. The $20-40,000 that Pryor allegedly got from some small time photog is not only unsubstantiated, but also ludicrous on the face of it.

    Tressel has admitted to lying, been suspended and then fired, but there is nothing new on that front either that the NCAA didn’t already know about. Although, the bureau for fairness in camp raffles has, to my knowledge, yet to weigh in.

    There is nothing new.

  19. Deb says: Jun 21, 2011 2:34 PM

    edgy, do you have to approach every discussion by being rude and belligerent?

    I’ve posted this many times, but obviously it bears repeating. My first love is the NFL, and the pros get the lion’s share of my attention. Although I’ve always watched Bama, I’ve only recently gotten back into college ball, and only been following these backstories since reading CFT. I’m unfamiliar or only vaguely familiar with many of the issues you bring up from other schools. When I asked if I’m missing something at OSU … I meant am I missing something?

    As far as I know, the only proven allegations against OSU are that a handful of players traded merchandise and autographs for cash and tattoos. The NCAA already has sanctioned the players for those minor infractions and has no reason to revisit them. The allegations about the cars so far appear to be untrue. I don’t agree that Pryor left only ahead of the posse like Carroll. Pryor only agreed to stay and go through the suspension out of loyalty to Tressel. When Tressel resigned, Pryor had no reason to stay–especially given the hard feelings toward him.

    I didn’t realize a school would be sanctioned because a coach lied even after the coach was fired. As you well know, I think that’s ridiculous. The man who committed the infraction has received the stiffest possible punishment: He has lost his job. That should close the matter unless other evidence against the school is found.

  20. edgy says: Jun 21, 2011 2:41 PM

    MS, you’re absolutely wrong, just like another guy who continues to claim the SI (as well as Yahoo), have no idea about what they’re talking about. Go ahead and stick your head in the sand just like the Trojan fans did. You can believe all you want but the stories about USC were attacked by fans as “unsubstantiated” and they had “no basis in fact” and the media was “biased against the program” and whatever else has been thrown around by Buckeye Nation.

    Oh and you’re quite wrong about the NCAA. They may not be on campus but they’re far from done with their investigation, especially in light of the latest allegations. Just keep thinking that because Trojan fans thought they were out of the woods and then they found out differently.

  21. paulbrownsrevenge says: Jun 21, 2011 3:07 PM

    EDGY. almost everyone on here thinks you are either wrong, or dont like your comments. You attack peoples comments and pick apart dialogue to warrant your case. We all know you hate OSU. I’m just curious, Who is your favorite college football team?

  22. paulbrownsrevenge says: Jun 21, 2011 3:11 PM

    @edgy, im sure you think Ray Small is a credible source of information as well. Or you can go after OSU for Clarett. Tressel Actually helped Clarett go back to school and get his life in order. Coach Tressel helped alot of people outside of football. It’s a shame he made a mistake and tried to cover for some kids he cared about, and lost his job. 15 years ago this whole story makes local newspapers in ohio, and the coach suspends the players…. and no one cares.

  23. motherscratcher23 says: Jun 21, 2011 3:15 PM

    @Edgy

    Where did I mention USC? What does anything about this have to do with USC?

    I’m still waiting for you to reveal all of the new allegations that the NCAA is investigating that we don’t already know about and have pretty much concluded.

    And I’m not saying that the SI story was false. It’s actually the NCAA that has said that when they cleared the players accused of infractions. I’m merely saying that it was poorly sourced. I have no information beyond that.

    Please Edgy, tell me that you have something, anything, other than more “you just wait and see” innuendo.

  24. paulbrownsrevenge says: Jun 21, 2011 3:16 PM

    @soflatrojan, USC knew of all those things going on. L.A. wants a pro team so bad, they tried to make USC one. And Cheater Peter Carroll played along with all of it until he found out the news. Then Guess what????? run run run to the safe house (NFL) take the money and run, and screw the school and its fanbase. What a joke

  25. dkhhuey says: Jun 21, 2011 4:04 PM

    @Deb – your original message was spot on!!! It is almost hysterical that in most people’s minds, every single allegation is true, every single administrative individual was/is in on it, every single thing the coaching staff is/has done has included lying, cheating, and against the rules, and every single athlete on the team is getting illegal benefits. Any feces/allegation that ‘journalist’ throw against the wall without even the remotest of due diligence to ascertain facts, later to be proven not true, well, are still believed to be true anyway because of some ludicrous conspiracy theory.

    I’ve said it on here a hundred times – the Tat 5 screwed up with minor violations and paid for it. Tressel, for some idiotic reason, decided to hide these minor violations and that has avalanched into a major violation that at minimum, cost him his job and a great deal of the reputation and integrity it took him a lifetime to acquire. The minor violations, without any more being uncovered, have been dealt with and are in the past. What the NCAA comes out with to address Tressel’s f@#$ ups is anybody’s guess. If they are in the pitch fork and torches mood and out to ‘send a message’ using OSU, then it will no doubt be a big time hit to the program. If they are not in that mood, then they will level the appropriate penalty for Tressel’s stupidity.

  26. Deb says: Jun 21, 2011 4:59 PM

    @dkhhuey …

    One thing I’ve noticed since posting on these sites is that people deliver the most hatred at me when I just stick to the facts. The other day, Plaxico Burress gave an interview where he talked about the difference in management styles between Tom Coughlin and Bill Cowher. I read the full interview rather than just the blog take with the slanted headline. People were going ape on the guy, and I said he’s entitled to prefer one manager over another. A CFT regular came on and called me every filthy thing he could summon just because I said a player who’d done time was entitled to his opinion. Sick.

    Some people have no sense of perspective. If a player makes a doofus comment, he’s Jack the Ripper. If he drops his gun and shoots himself in the leg, he’s Jack the Ripper. If he trades merchandise for tattoos, he’s Jack the Ripper. If he lies to the NCAA, he’s Jack the Ripper. In their minds, all of these people–and anyone who says a positive word about them–deserve the same punishment they’d give the real Jack the Ripper. Very scary.

  27. dkhhuey says: Jun 21, 2011 5:11 PM

    @Deb – They are also a glowing example of how bad our educational system is – not to mention the incredibly harmful effects extended exposure to pot, liquor, Fox News (cough cough), and radiation has on the brain.

  28. logan117 says: Jun 21, 2011 5:15 PM

    What a bunch of cry babies. I don’t agree with everything edgy says, but atleast he gets the point of all this. Listen carefully osu fans ( and deb) : it doesn’t matter if you call them minor infractions, or if you don’t think the players did anything really wrong, cuz they gotta eat too ya know, or that JT resigned or that prior left. All that matters is, whether you wanna see it or not, there is a big trail of crap from right after JT got hired til now. So u can spout off about the papers being wrong about some stuff, and how unfair the NCAA is to players, and all the other things you cry about. At the end of the day, they broke the rules, and they will get punished more. The deciding factor will probably be how embarrassed the NCAA is over all this. They just might want to send a message.

  29. paulbrownsrevenge says: Jun 21, 2011 5:22 PM

    it all comes down to this new generation of instant information. If the OSU players did that 15 years ago it never makes headline, no one cares, and we go on with life rooting for our teams on the field instead of what happens off the field. the networks make so much money off of football, that these lame stories are all they can come up with to give them something to talk about in the off season. its all about lame ratings. During the season people dont gossip like schoolgirls over who did what off the field. They watch the games and are passionate fans. thank you technology…. Does anyone remember when ESPN was about games? this crap should be on TMZ or E!

  30. paulbrownsrevenge says: Jun 21, 2011 5:28 PM

    If Tressel sits the players for the bowl game, and suspends them first 3 games ty, he still has a job, and no one bashes him or his credibility. He’s a great coach who looked past something dumb that the media got wind of and that was it. The only thing dumb Tressel did was recruit Pryor. he was bad news from day 1. but if Pryor goes to michigan or penn state he beats OSU a few times. Tressel was a casualty of his own recruiting war.

  31. dkhhuey says: Jun 21, 2011 6:17 PM

    @paul – All Tressel had to do was report the email to the Compliance Dept as soon as he read it!!! The Tat5 would have been suspended for the first 2 – 3 games and right back at it. It was because of his poor decision that the university is the position they are in right now.

    Only in hindsight can you say that Tressel made a mistake recruiting Pryor. Personally, I loved having him direct the Buckeye offense. He came up with a ton more great plays than he did bad ones and was exciting to watch! Obviously I could have done without all of the off the field shenanigans, but that is always the risk you have when throwing these athletes on such a huge stage!

  32. yuckygeo says: Jun 21, 2011 7:15 PM

    @Deb
    Your Jack the Ripper rant is awesome!

  33. Deb says: Jun 21, 2011 7:53 PM

    @yuckygeo …

    Thanks :)

    @logan117 …

    You’re right–it doesn’t matter that I think the infractions against trading merchandise and autographs for tats/cash are silly. They are infractions and the NCAA can impose sanctions over them. But you’re alleging there have been a series of infractions dating back a decade. Where is your evidence? So far, the only proven allegations are those against the Tat5 that we’ve known about since December, and the Tressel coverup for which he lost his job.

    Based on that, the only thing the NCAA can rightly do is vacate last seasons wins up to but not including the Sugar Bowl. I suppose they could sanction the school based on Tressel’s coverup alone, even though he has left the program. But that seems like overkill. If they prove something else against the program, then we can talk about further sanctions. But so far, they haven’t.

  34. BrownsTown says: Jun 21, 2011 7:57 PM

    Deb,

    Great! Your stances have made Edgy mad. Now OSU doesn’t stand a chance when the first Edgytron 2000 rankings come out. That plug number is going to be exceptionally harsh this year.

    Thanks! Thanks a lot!

  35. logan117 says: Jun 21, 2011 8:54 PM

    Deb, it seems once again you are being held hostage by this little thing called proof. In America, those in power make the rules. Especially in the NCAA and conference boards if directors or whatever u call them. If you think they would let a little thing called proof get in the way, then your nuts. The only reason they can probe tressel knew about any of this is cuz he used his email and textig to do it. Most of this stuff that the NCAA gets people on is hundred dollar handshakes and stuff like that. Are u going to tell me they have 100% concrete evidence for everything they nail people on? You seem smarter than that. Maybe your stuck thinking this is a just system run by just men.

  36. Deb says: Jun 21, 2011 10:37 PM

    @BrownsTown …

    Yikes … I’m sorry!

    *****

    logan117 says:

    Most of this stuff that the NCAA gets people on is hundred dollar handshakes and stuff like that. Are u going to tell me they have 100% concrete evidence for everything they nail people on? … Maybe your stuck thinking this is a just system run by just men.

    Sigh … okay, you’ve got me. Guess I’ve slipped over into thinking this operates like the criminal justice system. But the NCAA is the most corrupt organization in sports. If they want to take Ohio State apart even without proof of anything, who can stop them?

    But it’s wrong.

  37. logan117 says: Jun 21, 2011 11:29 PM

    Deb, whatever do you mean ” slipped into thinking it operates like the criminal justice system”? The last time I checked, they are pretty much the same. They both get it right as much as they can, but our criminal justice system still has people who get wrongly convicted every year, even with the advent of DNA testing and all the other high tech crap. Now, I realize I probably come off a little heavy handed here, but you all were debating this stuff for over a month before I said anything, so I figure u care enough to actually understand it correctly. So here it is: this is just like anything else in this world that involves people. It won’t be fair. One side will cheer, and one will cry, no matter what happens. But at the same time, I don’t think you can say the NCAA is corrupt. You might not agree with their business model or whatever you want to call it, but these universities all agree to play by their rules, as do the coaches and players. So if you were the NCAA, what would you do? I would protect my product at all costs. And I believe that is what they will do.

  38. motherscratcher23 says: Jun 22, 2011 12:48 AM

    Yeah Deb, it’s like Logan says…your nuts.

    Listen to him. He’s smart. He’ll help you understand it correctly.

  39. logan117 says: Jun 22, 2011 2:18 AM

    Actually motherscratcherthingamadoo, it would be nice if I didn’t have to say anything at all. But unfortunately, everytime I read a story on this site about how the great and powerful JT screwed himself out of a lifetime gig, if I happen to look at the comments I see a bunch of pansies prattle on about whether things are fair, who’s a troll, why won’t the NCAA let these kids make money, anything and everything. None of that stuff matters! So quit arguing about it. I understand this site is set up for commenting, but come on. At least do yourself a favor and not sound like your singing soprano while you do it.

  40. edgy says: Jun 22, 2011 10:33 AM

    paulbrown, I can’t help but LAUGH at your comments. Seriously, people here were attacking JOHN about the mere fact that he was posting info and one guy even posted in several different messages about Ohio State that his source was wrong and that everyone here would soon see that but then he didn’t admit that HE was wrong because that report not only proved to be true but also turned out to be worse for tOSU than was originally intimated. Just because tOSU fans STILL can’t see the truth doesn’t meant that they’re right. The fact is that this is going to get ugly and it’s because the coach went to great lengths to hide something that was a mere flesh wound and turned it into a major story.

    To the rest of you: get a grip. You people need to understand that Bruce Pearl lied about MINOR violations that would have gotten NOTHING from the NCAA except at “tsk, tsk” and after the school did nothing to him, the SEC stepped in and suspended him. Look, as much crap as you guys give the SEC, THEY knew it was wrong and they tried to save the school from themselves and when the school didn’t do anything on top of what they did, they just had to wash their hands and say “Well, we tried.” Tennessee did eventually fire Pearl but by then it was too little and too late. After tOSU found out about the emails, they gave Tressel a laughable two-game suspension that amounted to a Saturday vacation and only after they lost their appeal of the suspension of the players did Tressel suggest an upgrade to 5 games but still, a laughable suspension because he had access up until the game. Unlike the SEC, The Big 10 didn’t step in and tell the school that they need to do something so Tressel was basically off the hook. Now, fast forward even more and more crap is coming out and you guys are back to attacking the messenger instead of listening to the message (That includes SI for their story and ESPN for OTL). I’ve seen this from fans of Alabama and USC and SMU and it didn’t turn out any better for them and all it meant was the these outlets have had their reputations besmirched but their story was never proven false. Oh and don’t think that people didn’t threaten newspapers and television stations with lawsuits back then either because they did and guess what — no lawsuits were filed by the “innocent” players and their families. FYI, it wasn’t tOSU’s investigation into the allegations that turned up the emails but an FOIA request from a local paper. Without that, the school and the NCAA might have been in the dark even longer but that could have been worse if it had been found out during this season that Tressel knew.

    Finally, the NCAA ruled on those players based on the lies told by Tressel (and what the school thought was the truth, based on the lies told to them by Tressel). Don’t believe for one moment that it cleared them completely and that is over because the revelation that Tressel knew as far back as April meant that he KNOWINGLY played ineligible players the entire season instead of just for one bowl. North Carolina avoided a lot of that by taking these kids off the field and letting the NCAA sort it out for them (Whether that helps, given what Blake did, is another story). The loss of 5 games this season isn’t where it’s going to end because they will most likely forfeit all but one game from last year and suffer other sanctions because of it. PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND.

    Oh and MS, I guess you’d rather attack than learn. *I* mentioned USC because LIKE the fans of USC, Buckeye Nation would rather attack the message than listen to the messenger. When it finally all came out, the people who REALLY KNEW what went on and kept their head in the story weren’t shocked that USC got penalized like they were while the hard core deniers were crying in their beer about how unfair the NCAA was. Hell, USC had 3 sports involved and the school sanctioned TWO of them and the NCAA accepted those sanctions BUT all they did with the football team was disassociate themselves with Bush and the NCAA thought that was arrogant and they hit the school hard for that. No loss of games, no loss of scholarships — NOTHING but one piddly ass sanction and that’s why USC got hit hard. Buckeye Nation needs to pay attention to the actions of tOSU because they haven’t been that far from USC in their arrogance.

  41. motherscratcher23 says: Jun 22, 2011 10:53 AM

    @Logan – lmao. Dude, you’re awesome.

    @edgy – please then, enlighten all of us who don’t understand…what exactly is the ” more and more crap” that has come out since the original sanctions?

  42. edgy says: Jun 22, 2011 11:17 AM

    MS, you Buckeye fans don’t have one leg to stand on when you piss all over the SEC for their lack of education because it’s pretty damn obvious what that “more crap is” (BTW, here is a reading lesson for you: fast forward even MORE — (end of thought) and MORE crap is coming out (new thought)): the “more” crap is the SI story, the OTL about Pryor, the cars, etc. These are all stories that are more recent and haven’t been completely investigated by the NCAA. Sure, the NCAA has looked into some but others, like the OTL story, happened after they left tOSU’s campus.

  43. Deb says: Jun 22, 2011 12:09 PM

    @logan117 …

    But, darlin’, I do sing soprano … though despite being a girly-girl, I’m too fiesty to be called a “pansy.”

    Yes, I’m well-familiar with the failings of the criminal justice system, having a family of criminal defense attorneys. And yes, the system has its own corruptions. But at least there are checks and balances. Laws aren’t created, policed, adjudicated, and judgments upheld by the same people. Constitutional boundaries, rules of evidence, and sentencing guidelines do help level the playing field.

    The NCAA makes its own rules, investigates infractions, choose which infractions to ignore and which to blow out of proportion, decides–as you pointed out–whether to dismiss a confession of solicitation as in the Newton case or give credence to rumors of a money handshake. The NCAA can decide to suspend a player for 24 hours, as they did with Newton, or destroy a program, as they did with SMU. And once the decision is made, the only avenue for appeal lies with … the NCAA.

    As to why I called them the most corrupt organization in sports, well, let’s see …

    At the time SMU received the Death Penalty, the same practices were commonplace throughout the Southwest Conference. SMU was the chosen scapegoat.

    The bylaws are clear that when a player or an agent acting on behalf of a player solicits money, that renders the player ineligible. There is no wording suggesting the money must be received or that the player must be aware of the solicitation. Yet these bylaws were ignored to allow Cam Newton to continue playing despite a confession that his father solicited six figures on his behalf. But we’re worried about kids trading merchandise for tats?

    Why weren’t Pryor and the other OSU players suspended for the Sugar Bowl? Because, as with Newton, the NCAA wasn’t concerned with doing the right thing but with doing the financially expedient thing. They didn’t want to wind up with a TCU/Boise title game or jeopardize ratings for the Sugar Bowl.

    Those are just a few of the reasons the NCAA should not be dictating morality to colleges and student athletes.

  44. macbull says: Jun 22, 2011 12:24 PM

    JOHN TAYLOR…so all of “your hype”, claiming Ohio State players had violated NCAA rules because they got car deals…turns out being a swing and a miss by College Football Talk.

    Nice try JOHN AND CFT…

    Hey John…did you hear that Texas football players get FREE stuff?

    Is CFT going to do a follow up on that Texas story?

  45. edgy says: Jun 22, 2011 12:59 PM

    Deb, SMU was NOT the chosen scapegoat. They were EASILY the WORST offender and you couldn’t even take the sum total of what was going in the conference and come close to approaching what they were doing. I’m not saying that there weren’t people paying their players in the SWC but nothing like SMU and they were arrogant enough to continue their practices while they were on probation and their RECRUITING COORDINATOR put his initials on envelopes with cash in them.

    BTW, the outrage from SMU fans and alumni was such that they were able to eventually close down the paper that broke the story. No one ever really wants to hear the truth and SMU’s situation proves the lengths that people will go to when they’re out for blood.

  46. Deb says: Jun 22, 2011 1:20 PM

    @macbull …

    You know John Taylor is a lifelong Ohio State fan, right? His daughter goes to Ohio State. And he’s just reporting here what’s being reported in other outlets so his readers can comment on it. He’s not enjoying OSU’s travails.

    @edgy …

    It’s just difficult to imagine that any program in the ’80s could have out-corrupted Switzer.

  47. edgy and imtalking are one in the same says: Jun 22, 2011 1:26 PM

    the prophet has spoken!! the prophet has spoken!!

    do not disagree with edgy folks, he discourages thinking that doesn’t match his!!

    be weary, for the crazy man named edgy is truly clueless, and knows very little

    post one comment on here, and edgy will automatically decide that he is right and you are wrong……edgy is a delusional(cynical a**hole), please disregard all future rants and/or raves

    that is all

  48. edgy says: Jun 22, 2011 1:29 PM

    Deb, Did Oklahoma get the Death Penalty? Seems to me that puts Oklahoma in a galaxy far, far away when it comes to SMU’s situation. Not saying that they were clean but if you compared them to SMU, they were small potatoes.

  49. edgy says: Jun 22, 2011 1:33 PM

    There goes BuckeyeGirl, the one who is SOOOOO embarrassed to be a Buckeye Fan that SHE changes her name to take the Buckeye name out so no one knows who SHE is.

  50. logan117 says: Jun 22, 2011 2:02 PM

    Deb, if you want to call it corruption, go ahead. I think pretty much every corporation deals with things this way when it comes to potentially losing money. Some problems they squash, and others they pretend it didn’t happen and hope for the best. The part of your argument I don’t get is why you are so concerned with the downtrodden players. I think they should get a cut, but until that rule changes, it doesn’t matter. Any privilege they get beyond that of a normal student is against the rules and can make them ineligible. And I’ll even tell you why I feel that way. When I signed up for the air force, I knew it would kinda suck, but I did it for college money. I didn’t know how bad it would suck, but hey, I signed up to get free school. I got paid absolute dogcrap, but that’s the way it goes. No one gives something away for free. And you know what, I stuck it out and got through it. Did I get extra freedom for protecting everyone elses? No. I had even harsher rules to follow than anyone else, and the ucmj too. So I had two legal systems to deal with if I screwed up. So really what’s the difference? These kids get a good education if they want to apply themselves, pretty much get to pick what coeds they want to hook up with, every party u could ever want. Oh, and if they are good enough, to go the NFL. Oh god. Please save them. Better yet, if they don’t wanna play for an education, go tell em to go on strike for it. Fight for their rights like the rest of us do.

  51. logan117 says: Jun 22, 2011 3:02 PM

    Also Deb, calling newtons father an agent is not real fair. I dunno if the kid knew or not, but he can’t fire his father. He was born with that problem, he didnt choose it

  52. Deb says: Jun 22, 2011 3:12 PM

    @logan117 …

    Ah … another case a player envy. Lately if you scratch any argument regarding labor issues or NCAA greed, it comes back to “These guys have it better than I did. And they get the best chicks.”

    As you said, life ain’t fair. Football players and movie stars make considerably more than cops, teachers, firefighters, and service members. But that’s the price of living in a free-market society. Cops, teachers, firefighters, and our military are paid by the government via our taxes and we don’t want our government taking more of our tax money for these “socialist” efforts. But football players and movie stars are paid according to the revenue their efforts generate in the free market, so the sky is the limit.

    Why am I concerned with the players? Because I don’t like seeing the Big Dogs at the top screwing them out of their rightful share of that free-market revenue. I’m also concerned about cops, teachers, firefighters, and service members, but this is a football blog and not the place to discuss those issues. And because those aren’t free-market occupations, not much can be done about their salaries and benefits under the current system.

    Players are fighting back–NCAA players through the courts and NFL players through their labor negotiations. I’m just supporting their efforts.

  53. edgy and imtalking are one in the same says: Jun 22, 2011 3:24 PM

    I thought you werent supposed to talk to me edgy, werent you annoyed with how I found out your little game?!?!

    waaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaa

    please continue your bit**ing edgy, I will be here waiting, just like a certain friend of yours

  54. logan117 says: Jun 22, 2011 4:08 PM

    If you want to say I have player envy, fine. It’s your world. Just tell me one thing. Did these players know what they signed up for when they sent in their letters of intent? I believe they did. And if you can’t live up to what you agreed to, then I see no reason to back them. If they want to fight for their rights as they see them, great. I encourage every American to do so. Until then, it’s not a right to play college football and get free schooling. If they don’t want to follow the rules, don’t play. That’s what I care about. Oh, one more thing, if you want to look back a few posts, I said I support the players getting a cut. I don’t think it will happen, but I support it. I just say live up to the commitments you make. If you can’t do that, see ya!

  55. Deb says: Jun 22, 2011 5:45 PM

    @logan117 …

    I’m saying it gets old having an otherwise intelligent argument be brought back to “They get more than I did.” And if it were my world, it would run much differently in many ways but you’d definitely have been paid better.

    Don’t get me wrong … I’m not condoning athletes who decide they don’t have to follow the rules. You’re absolutely right: If they don’t like the NCAA rules, they can take another career path. I think they should get a cut of merchandising and a small stipend to cover general expenses, but they don’t and that’s the end of the discussion for now. They don’t get to go out and take “gifts” from football patrons or solicit money from recruiters. If they’re that talented, barring injury or stupidity, they’ll be in the money soon enough. If they get caught breaking the rules, they deserve their punishment.

    My argument about the free education is that a lot of these guys come from difficult backgrounds and have been progressed through school solely because of their athletic skills. Their intellectual and academic skills have been ignored. I just think that when they become part of a Div. I football program, the school should work a little harder to ensure they get a usable education. I know they’re provided tutors, but I’d like to see a “Scared Straight”-type program that brings together former players who were injured just shy of going pro, or who made it to the pros and went bankrupt on bad investments, etc. While all the snakes and hangers-on are whispering in their ears that they own the world, they need to have some heavy doses of reality explaining why they need a fallback position.

  56. logan117 says: Jun 22, 2011 6:04 PM

    Don’t worry about it. I don’t care how much I did or did not get paid for doing my part in the service. I was trying to state that even as a 17 year old kid, I knew what I was signing up for. It didn’t matter that I got paid squat. I was doing it for college money, and of course my country too. If you want to say I’m envious of anything, it would be that apparently the rules do not apply to these kids. Even ones they agree to. And then when they get caught, or the program, or the coach, everyone acts like either they killed someone, or that it shouldn’t be a big deal cuz they are getting used anyway. If they break the rules, they are gone. I think the same should go for coaches.

    And as far as your thing on the education, I can see that. But at the same time, it seems like your saying that cuz they coasted on their athletics and didn’t make much use of the first free education they got, that now the university needs to go over and above to convince them to try harder? It could be implemented. Good luck getting it to work. People are like water. They seek the easiest path to their goal. And their goal is the NFL. Not a college degree.

  57. motherscratcher23 says: Jun 22, 2011 8:39 PM

    @edgy – once again you start you post to me by trying to put words in my keyboard. I have not said a single thing about the SEC. But thats beside the point and everyone here already knows how full of crap you are. Just wanted to point that out.

    So, all of the “new crap” is the players accused in the SI article, who have been cleared…the car stuff, which has been disproven…and the Pryor OTL stuff, which has amounted to nothing.

    Yeah, thats pretty much what I thought.

    But by all means, keep spewing that same stuff. It just makes you look like more of an idiot.

    You know, like Logan.

    Like I said before, at least you guys are amusing.

  58. logan117 says: Jun 22, 2011 9:32 PM

    Mother, you really are a mother. I should have known better than to get involved with people who can’t see past their own allegiances to where they end and reality begins. All I can say is have fun with the NCAA when they have your hearings. I bet all of Michigan is rooting for you!

  59. motherscratcher23 says: Jun 22, 2011 9:44 PM

    OK Logan, I’ll humor you.

    What sanctions to OSU and individual players do you think would be fair?

    And what sanctions do you think will be handed down by the NCAA?

    I’d be interested to know because I’ve read all of your nonsense and hot air and there is really nothing specific.

  60. logan117 says: Jun 22, 2011 9:58 PM

    What would be fair? Good question. First, they have to vacate every win last year except the sugar bowl, since the NCAA knew about the allegations and let them play that one. Next, any players mixed up in the scandal are gone. Off the team. That won’t happen, but that’s what I would do. The team should lose 5 ships for each of the next two years. No bowls for two years, no big ten title games for 3 years. And that is if nothing new comes out that we don’t know about now. I know you will say that is harsh, but to me, this was complete LOI. I think USC got off lightly. So, let’s hear the next round of crying.

  61. motherscratcher23 says: Jun 23, 2011 8:33 AM

    You won’t be able to point out where I was “crying” about anything but that’s beside the point.

    Ok, that’s what you would do so I assume that’s what you think would be fair. A little over the top but not outrageously so.

    However, I’m still waiting to hear what you think the NCAA WILL do, because the was the basis of a lot of your early posts in this thread. You seemed to be implying that you somehow knew what is coming and Buckeyefans all have their heads in the sand.

    So, what do you think is coming Logan?

  62. edgy says: Jun 23, 2011 9:48 AM

    First of all, I fully understand that even if I were to post a link with taped evidence of these players taking money, I’d be attacked for spreading unsubstantiated rumors. That being said…

    For anyone who believes that I’m making a mountain out of a molehill, let’s review what’s happened so far:

    Just before their $ugar Bowl appearance, it’s made known that tOSU had several players that were ineligible because of the sale of memorabilia for tattoos or money. The Big 10 and the $ugar Bowl pushed the NCAA for a quick resolution and to make them eligible, which the NCAA does. The players are allowed to play in the game but they are told that they will have to miss 5 games next season. Jim Tressel feigns disbelief and horror at what the players have done. School excused players by saying that they weren’t aware that what they did was a violation but former Buckeyes basically say that this is a lie because compliance classes they took at tOSU made them aware of the fact that this was a no-no.

    tOSU plays game and beats Arkansas and all is well in the world. FOIA request comes in from local Columbus paper, which uncovers emails to and from Tressel that the original investigation missed and it soon becomes apparent that Tressel knew about this in April but withheld information from his bosses. School investigates further and reports to NCAA. Yahoo picks up story and reports that Tressel knew 9 months prior to $ugar Bowl but didn’t tell bosses. Tressel’s weak excuse is that he was bound by confidentiality. Review of emails show that this wasn’t true for at least the first email and that he forwarded this and other emails to Pryor’s mentor back in Pennsylvania while NOT forwarding emails to his bosses, who DID need to know all this. tOSU holds news conference and confirms all that Yahoo had alleged and Tressel was given $250k fine and 2 game suspension. Later on, players lose appeal on 5 game suspension and Tressel “gives himself” 3 extra games.

    Allegations against players about automobile sales surfaced and school had to hustle off to check into these allegations. Compliance officer clears players and BMV would later come to the conclusion that the company sold all but one car for a profit, though they did not say that NCAA rules weren’t broken (Something that isn’t in their purview). While compliance officer isn’t getting vehicle from dealer, it is revealefsd that contrary to what is the policy for most of the Big 10 schools, tOSU allows him to get complementary automobile from another dealer, in exchange for tickets. Talk about the fox guarding the hen house (Seriously, MORE than the head coach, the compliance officer needs to as far away from the stench of conflict of interest as he can get).

    SI does story that sheds light on several incidents from Tressel’s past that show that there have been many allegations against him and his programs but that he’s been able to steer clear of penalties because it was mostly hearsay with no paper trail (except the Tattoo-Gate emails). It also names several players that were also involved in the sale of memorabilia or autographs for tattoos or money. Several parents of players have vowed to sue SI but none have followed through with threat. Tressel “resigns” shortly before story becomes public.

    ESPN’s Outside The Lines does a story on a friend of Pryor’s who alleges that he had witnessed him get $500 to $1,000 per session from a Columbus photographer for autographs. Despite denials, a quick check by ESPN found many items with Terrell Pryor’s signature that were for sale on E-Bay. It was also alleged that he got tickets for games and he denied it but records show that he was on a player’s will-call list multiple times. Allegations surfaced that Pryor got between $20,000 to $40,000 for signing memorabilia.

    A story concerning said photographer taking players, including Pryor, golfing and picking up the tab, surfaced. Club’s GM confirms that this happened and that he alerted Tressel’s secretary, who said that they would tell him about this. He’s unsure whether that happened but did note that Pryor stopped going to club after that. GM claims that this happened in 2009 and not 2008 as the story had alleged but it was noted that photographer was suspended from club in 2009 because he owed them a significant amount of money. Pryor hustles out the door before any of this comes out but not by much.

    Yes, the NCAA did clear the players for the bowl BUT that was based on false information and had they known then what they know NOW, I doubt that they would have allowed that to happen; especially, when you consider that they’re going to take Tressel to task for KNOWINGLY playing ineligible players during the regular season.

    Why could this turn bad? Look, Bruce Pearl lied to the NCAA over MINOR allegations that would have netted the Volunteers a few secondary violations that would have amounted to nothing. The school didn’t do anything about it but the SEC stepped in and gave him an 8-game suspension. The school STILL did nothing to him but as the year went on, it became apparent that the NCAA wasn’t looking too kindly at their response so after tournament was over, the school finally cut ties with Pearl. Pearl’s lies will not result in any of his players being declared ineligible NOR will they cost the school nay wins. It will probably cost them some scholarships and maybe garner a post-season ban because they didn’t come to Jesus until it was too late. On the other hand, tOSU never came to Jesus and the Big 10 didn’t take them there, either and those players WILL end up being declared ineligible and they will end up costing the school wins from last season and the school WILL end up with a 1-12 record when all is said and done (BTW, don’t think that the NCAA is serious about vacated wins – ask Kentucky. They were forced to acknowledge that Calipari did NOT win his 500th game this season and he’s going to have to wait 2 more years before he’ll rack up enough victories to make up for the 42 that he was forced to vacate. Alabama vacated wins over a book scandal and it was a similar scandal that cost Bowden wins at Florida State). The sad thing is that all Tressel had to do was report his players in April and they could have weathered the few games that they might have been suspended, AT WORST, finished the regular season at 10-2 instead of 11-1 and he’s still be the head coach at tOSU. There are still people who blame those players but when it’s all said and done, the adult in the room didn’t take his responsibilities seriously and that’s why he’s no longer there.

    Now, I invite ANYONE who has not read the NCAA’s report on USC to do so because it will allow them to see how this all contrasts AND what the NCAA is thinking when they hand out these penalties (For example, they noted that the ‘compliance” department was mainly 2 people during the time of the violations and for some of that time, one person – the compliance officer. Not winning anyone’s favor when you’re not putting that much effort into compliance. If tOSU doesn’t start forbidding their compliance officer from taking complementary vehicles, I don’t expect the NCAA to look too kindly on them, as well).

    There are so many people out there talking about how this is all penny-ante bull crap but you need to understand the NCAA’s REAL concerns about this. The main character behind Michigan’s problems in basketball gave players money here and there and was alleged to have given Chris Weber over $280k (Speculation is that most of it WAS penny-ante and he gave him the bulk of it after Weber decided to go pro). While this all seems innocent and maybe it is, the guy at the center of all this was KNOWN to run a gambling ring and that’s troubling. While he may have had the best of intentions and did absolutely nothing, he could have easily used this against the kids and forced them into shaving a few points for his benefit. The NCAA lives in fear of this kind of problem and San Diego, a religious school, is under investigation for just such a problem. FYI, Michigan took steps to distance itself from Weber that some may consider draconian but he was told not to show his face around the school for a long time.

    USC’s status as a repeat offender didn’t help them but their arrogance hurt them even more. Had Garrett chosen to vacate wins (something he did do for basketball and tennis), reduce scholarships (again, something he did for the others) and a implement post-season ban, the NCAA would have gone much easier on the program but that didn’t happen and they paid the price for his arrogance. tOSU can come to grips with the fact that they ARE going to lose games and they ARE going to get a post-season ban and so they should get ahead of the NCAA and vacate the wins, drop two to three scholarships for a year or two and give themselves a bowl ban OR they can throw themselves on the mercy of the NCAA and prove themselves to be just as arrogant as Garrett by doing nothing (You can say that they fired Tressel but by their own words, he wasn’t forced out so they essentially did nothing on that front).

  63. edgy says: Jun 23, 2011 10:42 AM

    MS, I didn’t put any words in your mouth — MORE PROOF that the “fabled” Big-10 superiority in education is just that — fabled.

    Second — continue to believe in fairy tales because the Buckeye Nation has convinced itself (Just like fans at SMU, Alabama and USC) that these stories have been or will be disproved and guess what – not only were THEY wrong but you’re wrong. Let’s not forget that in front of Yahoo’s story, one tOSU die hard was all over JT and others about how this story would turn out to be wrong and yet, not only was HE wrong but he slunk off into the woodwork until his words died down and he has never admitted that he was wr-wr-wr-wr-not right…

  64. motherscratcher23 says: Jun 23, 2011 6:31 PM

    Ok edgy, once again, please point out where I mentioned anything about big 10 superiority. Anywhere.

    Anywhere at all.

    As to that 1st post, you must be more insane than I thought if you think I’m going to read that whole thing.

  65. Deb says: Jun 23, 2011 8:31 PM

    @logan117 …

    Some kids have a lot more savvy at 17 than others. I have a feeling you were one of the brighter bulbs. I don’t like the smart-aleck entitled types either, and just because I think some of these kids are being exploited doesn’t mean the rules shouldn’t apply. I’m sure a lot of young gang members and drug dealers are manipulated and exploited, too, but they still have to do the time if they do the crime. I don’t necessarily agree that they should be out of the program for good if they commit an infraction–depends on the infraction. Some of the NCAA’s rules are pretty nitpickey. But I’d be on board with that if they’re caught taking a major bribe.

    You’re right that the “Scared Straight” approach wouldn’t work with a lot of them. But it might work with a few, and that makes it worth a try. Again, it’s not always about being unwilling to take advantage of that free education. Some people just aren’t as intellectually gifted as they are physically gifted … and vice versa.

    As for your sanctions, I’m big on trying to nail the actual culprits rather than punishing the school after all the bad guys are gone. That’s not a popular stand, but it’s how I feel. Fire and suspend everyone connected to the problem, vacate any wins, recall any trophies, but don’t punish a new coach and players who had nothing to do with any of it. How is that fair?

  66. southernpatriots says: Jun 24, 2011 3:19 AM

    Due to an intense schedule of various family issues, we are late to this discussion and probably that is good. During the time, we have heard back from tOSU alums who are relieved and happy that at least these allegations had these results. They are still apprehensive about the NCAA sanctions, we good reason.

    We hope that tOSU can get back to the “straight and narrow” and the football program will soon reflect the honor and integrity that so many of its research programs have. All of college football will benefit from a strong program at tOSU.

    Though we are very busy, time for college football season to begin still seems to be passing slowly. What is that about a “watched clock”? ha.

  67. logan117 says: Jun 24, 2011 10:34 AM

    Mother, other than kicking players out, thats what I think will happen. I could be a little off on how many ships or years, but I think it will be pretty close to that.

    Deb, it may not be “fair”, but have you ever heard of teams having a culture of losing? Like the LA Clippers, or the old New Orleans ‘Aints? Well I believe once it starts, there is a culture of cheating at these schools with problems like this. And if you are the NCAA, and you are going to have all these rules, even the nitpicky ones, then you cannot allow this culture to continue. You have to slam it hard, otherwise it will continue. And you can’t do that by only punishing the “guilty” parties who left.

  68. dkhhuey says: Jun 24, 2011 10:59 AM

    @mother – you’ll soon realize that its impossible to reason with idiots! Don’t waste your time and energy on it any further for you’d be more productive discussing quantum physics with a brick wall!

  69. Deb says: Jun 24, 2011 12:00 PM

    @logan117 …

    A culture of cheating? I’ve been back in the criminal justice realm of not punishing the innocent. Really haven’t looked at it as an institutional culture of cheating. Must give that more thought.

    But seriously … do you really believe that’s what we’re talking about with Ohio State? A handful of players thought they were above the rules and committed some minor infractions. Their coach found out–only because an attorney violated lawyer/client privilege to tell him. For some inexplicable reason, the coach covered up the infraction and lost his career. These aren’t recruiting violations or pay-for-play. There’s no evidence yet that any of those things occurred. The coach is gone, the players have been suspended. Other than vacating the wins, is there any point in hammering this school? Shouldn’t those sanctions be reserved for places that do have a demonstrable culture of cheating?

  70. logan117 says: Jun 24, 2011 3:16 PM

    Deb, I think tressel found out that somebody else knew when he got the emails from Cicero. If you choose to believe that nothing else was going on, and that tressel wasn’t, at the very least turning a blind eye to it, then your view is pretty understandable. Personally, and I will make a guarantee here, if I was getting millions of dollars a year, and loved my job as much as tressel did, you better believe I would know exactly what was going on with these kids. Drinking and drugs are one thing, because those are social things. But this is something he can watch and to some extent, control. And I think he definitely knew, and just told the kids “just don’t let anyone know about it.” also, and I have no idea if there is any proof, but I think tressel may have used these kinds of things as a selling point to get kids like prior. Like I said, no proof, but I i think he may have sold that as a culture there when he needed to to get a kid like prior.

  71. Deb says: Jun 24, 2011 8:31 PM

    @logan117 …

    As far as I know, it was five players and they traded their own autographs, championship rings, and trinkets for cash and tattoos. As long as that’s all it involved, I don’t think the coach would be so involved with the players that he’d know about something like that.

    If more players had been involved … or if the kids were selling large amounts of program merchandise that would have had to come from the team’s inventory … then I’d be more likely to agree with you that people connected with the program would have to have known.

  72. edgy says: Jun 25, 2011 2:13 AM

    MS, again, you need reading lessons. At NO time did I say that you said anything about the Big-10’s superiority (as I also didn’t say that you said anything about USC). I said that your reading skills disproves what the Big 10 people have been saying and you continue to prove it. BTW, why not address the issues instead of this faux conversation.

    Oh and there’s dk, our man who swore up and down that Yahoo was wrong — ready to admit that YOU were wrong?

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