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Vandy vice chancellor hints SEC not done expanding

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Conference realignment has been dormant for the past couple of weeks as far as headline news is concerned, but there’s no doubt that deals are still being worked behind the scenes, especially with regards to the Big East.

We still don’t know officially who’s received a formal invite, but UCF, Houston and now BYU all seem like they’re getting close to finalizing things.

Once that’s all worked out, that would put an end to the realignment discussion for the BCS AQ schools, right?

Perhaps not.

According to Vanderbilt’s official site, more SEC expansion could be on the way. David Williams, vice chancellor for university affairs and athletics at Vanderbilt, told the school’s Athletics Committee on the Board of Trust this week that expansion is one of many reforms the conference is considering in the coming years. Specifically,  Williams said the SEC would probably expand by two more schools.

“These are some of the most aggressive and boldest set of reforms I’ve seen come in athletics for a long time,” Williams said.

Among other things discussed were “rules to limit the participation of freshmen in college sports, higher admissions standards for transfers out of junior colleges and limiting the amount of athletic scholarships that can be offered.”

The SEC shook up this latest round of realignment with the additions of Texas A&M and Missouri. TCU and West Virginia (whenever they can get this lawsuit over with) have/will be brought in to fill those final two spots in the Big 12, and the Big East is just trying to keep itself afloat after losing Syracuse and Pitt to the ACC in addition to TCU and WVU.

The Pac-12 and Big Ten both stayed at 12 members while Conference USA and the Mountain West formed a football-only 22-member how-in-the-hell-is-this-going-to-work “alliance”.

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39 Responses to “Vandy vice chancellor hints SEC not done expanding”
  1. deadeye says: Nov 15, 2011 9:24 PM

    The SEC will be looking to get into Virginia and North Carolina. Also, if Oklahoma doesn’t like the direction the BIG12 has taken recently, they might think about the SEC. Everyone knows the 16-team superconferences are coming, and Slive doesn’t want to be late to that party.

  2. woebegong says: Nov 15, 2011 9:29 PM

    I really don’t see any need to bring in another two teams myself. I think they ruined the purity and history of the the conference as it is. The SEC makes more than enough money and there has to be and end to this whole deal. Seems to me when you have won the last 5 BCS NC’s in a row, and stand a darn good chanced of nbr 6 this year, you don’t need any more recognition and like I said, the SEC is already a big money conference. Why dilute it with a team from Texas and one from Missouri? I do not think that the SEC teams will benefit that much in recruiting players but I guess it has something to do, with expansion of TV coverage. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me, but then again, I don’t get between 800,000-1,000,000 to make decisions. I am retired anyway, but I could be talked out of retirement for a few years with that many bucks on the line, LOL.

  3. tmb333 says: Nov 15, 2011 9:32 PM

    “rules to limit the participation of freshmen in college sports, higher admissions standards for transfers out of junior colleges and limiting the amount of athletic scholarships that can be offered.”

    All great ideas. No freshman eligibility but let them still have four years of eligibility.

    Higher JUCO requirments would result in kids be better prepared for college.

    Less scholarships would keep teams from hoarding talent.

  4. 4lilnoles says: Nov 15, 2011 9:46 PM

    It’s apparent that all the major conferences are gearing toward the day when the NCAA will be pushed to the side and they all join together to form a Super-division in College Football. We will get to 4, 5 or 6 conferences with 16 teams each. PAC-16, BIG TEN (16), BIG 16, ACC, SEC, BIG EAST and then probably another. Each team will provide 2 teams for a playoff system, which will leave 4 at large. I’m pulling for the SEC to ADD Clemson and Florida St., they will go to the SEC East. Missouri and one other team will head west….maybe Vanderbilt.

  5. Deb says: Nov 15, 2011 9:48 PM

    Just when you think you’re out …

    Wish the SEC would stand pat for a couple of years. deadeye, I know some have made the case for Oklahoma, but it’s not a Southern school. I’d really hate to see the SEC go outside the traditional South. However, Virginia would be a good option. North Carolina is more a basketball state. It’s difficult to imagine NC or Duke opting for the SEC.

    Wish Vandy had mentioned what schools were being considered :)

  6. harleyspoon says: Nov 15, 2011 10:05 PM

    I have been talking about the play-off system and the creation of 4-6-8 (preferably 8) “super conferences” with 16 teams each with 2 or 4 divisions each, for over 3 years…I prefer 8 conferences because as the population grows and more very good athletes are available, the better college football will be. Regional rivalries will explode…The $$$ will flow like hot lava…The NCAA will continue but will be merged with the College Football Championship System (instead of the BCS)…

    The sports writers acted like I was on dope. It will happen and there is really no choice in the matter…The American sports fan wants a play-off system and why not?….Denial artists cite that such a system will destroy the current non BCS bowl system…I say it will enhance the current bowl system…What are we waiting for? C’mon BLEACHER REPORT…Get with it….Take the lead!

  7. kdbroom says: Nov 15, 2011 10:47 PM

    The most likely SEC expansion scenarios all seem to involve adding schools outside the current conference footprint. If that remains the case, you can rule out the most obvious candidates (FSU, GT, Miami, and Clemson). IMHO, that means either raiding the ACC for schools in Va and NC (VT and UNC or NCSt), or raiding the Big 12 again (OU and OSU).

    For the ACC, I don’t see UNC moving, and I’d see NCSt as a fall-back school. VT would be a no-brainer. Problem is, the ACC will be ramping up their buyout penalties, so those schools may come off the table unless the SEC helps offset the costs (directly or indirectly).

    For the Big12, the Oklahoma TV markets don’t bring a whole lot to the table. This scenario might hang on the ACC option falling through, the Pac-12 reaffirming no further desire to expand, AND Texas continuing to cause problems with the LHN.

    It sure will be fun seeing how this all plays out.

  8. Deb says: Nov 15, 2011 10:56 PM

    @harleyspoon …

    I’d like to see Division IA pared down to a handful of major conferences–for instance, the SEC, Big 10, Big 12, Pac 12, ACC, plus BYU and Notre Dame. That’s it. Then come up with some kind of BCS-type poll for ranking the top 25. The top 16 go to a tournament playoff. Doesn’t matter what conference you’re in. If you make the top 16, you go to the tournament and the top two teams meet in the title game. Use the major bowls to house the 8 tournament games, rotating the championship game each year.

    Have a similar ranking/playoff system for the next tier of teams–Division IB, or whatever–comprised of the Big East, WAC, and so on. And let them play their series in the non BCS bowls.

    Your thoughts?

  9. Deb says: Nov 15, 2011 10:59 PM

    Oh, harleyspoon, my reasoning is to keep limit the top tier to the best programs that play comparably strong schedules and bring in comparable revenues–making ooc scheduling feasible.

  10. harleyspoon says: Nov 15, 2011 11:04 PM

    As in all things in life, the “best” teams will be in flux…There will be teams that are now relatively weak…they will find that right coach, build those extraordinary facilities, recruit that awesome QB or running back and suddenly, they are in the”elite”….and as the population grows and more “better” kids come along from better high school programs, all of the sudden, up will pop a few more elite programs….We are not standing still as a race…we are in flux….constant change…

  11. dee6634 says: Nov 15, 2011 11:06 PM

    I can’t believe you’re quoting someone from Vanderbilt about anything to do with athletics.

    No jokes about the intramural sports program?

  12. harleyspoon says: Nov 15, 2011 11:09 PM

    Your system is not a true play-off system…Winners of conference championships (the first leg in the championship brackets) play-off game will vie for the national championship in a bracketed play-off…those who don’t win their conference championship but which have winning records will participate in the bowl system as it is now…

  13. harleyspoon says: Nov 15, 2011 11:12 PM

    I would dare say that Vanderbilt has a much stronger academic program than your school (I don’t know what that school is)…Intelligence is what the college football game is looking for…and Vandy has some pretty smart kids and profs…They tend to come up with good ideas from time to time…

  14. pastortodd78 says: Nov 15, 2011 11:14 PM

    How is Oklahoma not in the south? I have heard we are a southern state, a southwestern state, and a Midwest state. But the fact remains that Indian Territory (which became Oklahoma) fought for the Confederacy and we are farther south geographically than Missouri….

  15. Deb says: Nov 16, 2011 12:16 AM

    Oh pooh, harleyspoon.

    @pastortodd78 …

    You hear so many definitions of the South that it is difficult to put your finger on it. For clarity’s sake, I define the South as the 13 states that signed the order of secession:

    Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Missouri, Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, and Texas.

  16. deadeye says: Nov 16, 2011 12:44 AM

    I think the concept of “southern”, for the sake of SEC expansion, is any school residing in a state that borders at least two or three other SEC states. Oklahoma, while obviously not a traditionally southern state, still borders Arkansas, Texas, and Missouri, all of which have member universities. I know that logic taken to an extreme would eventually permit every state other than Hawaii and Alaska into the SEC. However, there’s an upper limit to the number the SEC is willing to take. I honestly believe if they reach 16 they are really done expanding for good.

    And 16 is the magic number for two reasons. First, 16 teams allows 4 divisions of four teams with three post season games, which obviously triple the revenue of the current single championship game. Also, the PAC-10 signalled two off seasons ago that they wanted to reach 16. While their efforts failed, they set off the tsunami we are seeing today with schools and conferences trying desperately to avoid being left out of the inevitable super-conference based playoff system.

  17. dmcgrann says: Nov 16, 2011 8:15 AM

    Deb, you’ve said before that West Virginia isn’t a “Southern” state. But, by your definition given above, it should be, because it was part of Virginia when it seceded from the Union during the Late Unpleasantness.

    I wouldn’t get too hung up on defining “Southern” states based on whether or not they were part of the CSA or not. Ever read all of the stanzas of “Maryland, My Maryland”? Folks would consider Maryland a “Northern” state, but their state song is a pro-Confederate anthem.

    Just picking nits with you. :)

  18. Deb says: Nov 16, 2011 1:42 PM

    @dmcgrann …

    “The Late Unpleasantness” … that’s hysterical! But West Virginia fought like the dickens to get outta there :)

    It’s not a Confederate thing. I definitely have a New South state of mind. It’s more wanting to keep the SEC historically intact.

    And all my exes live in Oklahoma 😉

  19. harleyspoon says: Nov 16, 2011 2:49 PM

    And Deb, Oklahoma wasn’t even a state during the war between the states..

  20. harleyspoon says: Nov 16, 2011 2:59 PM

    West Virginia became a state following the Wheeling Conventions, breaking away from Virginia during the American Civil War. The new state was admitted to the Union on June 20, 1863, and was a key Civil War border state. West Virginia was the only state to form by seceding from a Confederate state, and was one of only two states formed during the American Civil War (the other one being Nevada, which separated from Utah Territory).

  21. harleyspoon says: Nov 16, 2011 3:05 PM

    Missouri was a Union state….although a “bloody” Union state…The SEC now has a Yankee State among its membership…

  22. Deb says: Nov 16, 2011 8:43 PM

    harleyspoon, Missouri couldn’t make up its mind. But it did sign the order of secession, so it efinitely wasn’t a Union state. And though I was born and raised a Tide fan, I went to Mizzou and they passed the grits test. If I can get grits at the local diners, I figure I’m still in the South :)

  23. harleyspoon says: Nov 16, 2011 9:29 PM

    Missouri was officially a Union State during the Civil War but was a border state fraught with “brother against brother” and “neighbor against neighbor” animosity. Many young men left home and joined guerrilla type bands of Confederate raiders, the most famous of these being Quantrill’s raiders, who were Confederate supporters. They led bloody raids against Union sympathizers throughout Missouri and into Kansas.
    The U. S. Jefferson Barracks, was a major Union armory and disembarkation point for Union troops with it’s strategic location on the Mississippi River south of St. Louis and it’s railroad access.

    Read more:

  24. harleyspoon says: Nov 16, 2011 9:37 PM

    Deb…You can get grits in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Kentucky, Missouri–all Yankee states. You surely don’t want Ohio State, Purdue, U of Illinois, Northwestern in the SEC just because you can get grits in those states, do you? You can also get grits in Oklahoma…which was not a state during the civil war…

  25. Deb says: Nov 17, 2011 3:22 PM

    harleyspoon, when you see the word “wiki” in front of something, that means it was written by folks just like us, not by historians. And while at Mizzou, I took advantage of my location to do a tremendous amount of real historical research on the James/Younger gang and Quantrill since the library houses the best collection of documents on the subject. So you don’t need to keep on with the history lesson. I’m glad to hear all those Yankee states have come to appreciate our Southern staple. But Missouri did sign the order of secession stating its intention to leave the Union and join the Confederacy. The other states you’ve mentioned did not. It is what it is.

    Yes, I’m well aware that Oklahoma was not a state during the Civil War. Therefore it couldn’t have been one of the states that signed the order of secession … my criteria for determining which states were and weren’t in the South.

  26. harleyspoon says: Nov 17, 2011 3:28 PM

    But one need only check the figures that are used to produce the article on WIKI, etc…There are footnotes, you know….Oh, and most of the essays, etc., produced on Wiki are by experts in the various fields…and it is all subject to documentation and verification…Incidentally, I have a MA in economics & history and a PhD in politics…I know how to check references…and you do too!!

  27. harleyspoon says: Nov 17, 2011 3:31 PM

    I also lived in Missouri..My Dad was a military man and we were stationed at Whiteman AFB…I went to high school at Warrensburg, Missouri and was taught Missouri history and what they called “civics” then…

  28. harleyspoon says: Nov 17, 2011 3:36 PM

    The most famous unsuccessful secession movement was the case of the Southern states of the United States. Secession from the United States was declared in eleven states (and failed in two others); they joined together to form the Confederate States of America (CSA). The eleven states of the CSA, in order of secession, were: South Carolina (seceded December 20, 1860), Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, Arkansas, North Carolina, Virginia, and Tennessee (seceded June 8, 1861). Secession was declared by its supporters in Missouri and Kentucky, but did not become effective as it was opposed by their pro-Union state governments

  29. harleyspoon says: Nov 17, 2011 3:39 PM

    Missouri is somewhat unique among the states involved in the Civil War. She had two state governments…one Confederate and one Union…who sent representatives to both the U.S. Congress and Confederate States of America Congress. Missouri initially proclaimed neutrality while the other Southern States were seceding but the neutrality was broken when Union forces under General Nathanial Lyons arrested the Missouri State Militia at their encampment near St. Louis. Lyon’s army then proceeded to Jefferson City, forcing the State government under Governor Claibourne Jackson into exile. Governor Jackson and the Missouri government retreated to the town of Neosho in the southwestern corner of the state and on October 31, 1861, adopted an Ordinance of Secession; voted $10,000,000.00 for defense; and authorized the issuance of defense bonds for that amount.

    General Lyons instituted a new state government loyal to the Union and appointed a military governor and state officers, and declared martial law over the entire state which remained in place during the entire Civil War.

  30. Deb says: Nov 18, 2011 4:02 PM

    harleyspoon …

    You’re just not going to let me get away with this, are you? :)

    Yes, I’m well-versed in Civil War history. But what’s done is done, so at least I can make Missouri’s admission to the SEC palatable by remembering it was one of the 13 states that signed the secession order. But Oklahoma? I’ve spent a lot of years hating Oklahoma and Nebraska. It’s hard to imagine anything could make the Sooners palatable.

  31. harleyspoon says: Nov 18, 2011 5:31 PM

    Signing the Secession Order (or any contract) and making it stick are two different things….as anyone with intelligence would realize…Lyon unstuck the Secession Order..Put Big Mo under Martial Law and that was the deal…

  32. harleyspoon says: Nov 18, 2011 6:11 PM

    Deb, You mentioned 13 stars..I have an original Stars and Bars in my den…and I have replicas of every evolution of the Stars and Bars…I also have original and replicas of every flag that flew under and over the Confederate States of America (CSA); battle flags and all……All of that is neither here nor there….What is here is that many Missourians wanted Missouri to be a Confederate State…and the Confederacy wanted Missouri to be a Confederate state….General Lyon overpowered them and held Missouri as a Union State…I am proud of my Confederate ancestors…I am not proud of the notion that some of them owned slaves under the Spoon, Spooner, Spoone, Witherspoon and Weatherspoon names…all going back to England…I know of no ancestor of mine who fought for the Union..I am sure there are some but their names have probably been erased..My blood comes from Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee, Arkansas, Texas and Oklahoma..and my ancestors on both sides were soldiers in the Confederacy….My Great Grand Dad–on my Dad’s Mama’s side,–Will Hudson, married a (Southern) Missourian, Ida Elizabeth Coker…Her family were loyal to the Confederacy..I could go on ad nauseum…I even have an original photograph of my Great Grandad (My Grandpaw Spoon’s Dad), John Spoon, in his confederate uniform…sword, plumage and all… He was from the area of Easom Hill, Ga…

    On my Mama’s side, the Orands, many of them–who were in Texas (a state of Mexico) before the Old 300 got there–are buried in Waco and other Central Texas towns…

    With all of that, there is nothing that makes Missouri an official Confederate state even though it signed the Order of Secession and later was accepted by the Confederate States of America…Lyon made that deal null and void under US Martial Law…

    Regarding Confederate flags (all of them), I still oppose removing them from US history and visibility. They may have flown for a while over slavery (and I abhor and damn slavery), so did the various American flags we say the pledge to at every football game I attend…If any flag that flew over slavery has to be removed from history, all flags which flew over slavery must be removed from our history…or none of them!!! Hypocrisy can’t have it both ways!! Nevertheless, I am a proud citizen of the USA…

    Missouri belongs in the Big12, not the SEC…Kentucky does not belong in the SEC either….It was not a Confederate State…Maybe Kentucky should be in the Big12 too!!

  33. Deb says: Nov 19, 2011 10:10 PM

    Yes, harleyspoon, I know there’s a difference between signing a contract and making it stick. As I said, I’m trying to make Missouri’s admission to the SEC palatable by remembering the state has Southern ties … no matter how tenuous. It’s my alma mater, and I love the school. But my football loyalties belong to the Tide. Yes, I agree, Missouri belongs in the Big 12. But what’s done is done, and as a member of SEC Nation, I must make the best of it.

    My family has been in the South for generations, and I’m Southern to the core. Our history is what it is–and as you said, slavery is a shared national disgrace not unique to the South. But I believe the Confederate flag should be limited to historical exhibits. It shouldn’t be flying over government buildings in 2011 America.

  34. harleyspoon says: Nov 20, 2011 3:06 AM

    And neither should the Stars and Stripes fly over any capitol…since it did fly over slavery in states outside the South for long, long time……To allow that is to embrace hypocrisy…Nevertheless, I put my hand over my heart and look toward the American flag with emotion..,I am an American…I am a Marine…I grew up in a military family…..The Civil War (War Between the States) settled that..but I am not ashamed of my Confederate heritage…

  35. Deb says: Nov 21, 2011 11:26 AM

    I’m not ashamed of my Confederate heritage, either. But that war ended in 1865. The Confederacy hasn’t existed in more than a century. Its flag has no more business flying over government buildings in the United States of America in 2011 than does the Union Jack. The Stars and Stripes is the flag of our nation. I can’t imagine any Marine saying it shouldn’t fly over our Capitol (and we have only one–it’s in Washington, D.C.). That’s just lunacy, and dishonors the servicemen and women currently fighting under that flag.

  36. harleyspoon says: Nov 21, 2011 12:32 PM

    Of course, Deb, I did not say, categorically) the American flag should not fly over our capitol….but obviously you didn’t read all of what I actually said:

    “Regarding Confederate flags (all of them), I still oppose removing them from US history and visibility. They may have flown for a while over slavery (and I abhor and damn slavery), so did the various American flags we say the pledge to at every football game I attend…If any flag that flew over slavery has to be removed from history, all flags which flew over slavery must be removed from our history…or none of them!!! Hypocrisy can’t have it both ways!! Nevertheless, I am a proud citizen of the USA…”

    I refer you to the “…or none of them!!!. In the context of that statement, I made the following statement (I realize you don’t know what “context” means):

    “And neither should the Stars and Stripes fly over any capitol…since it did fly over slavery in states outside the South for long, long time……To allow that is to embrace hypocrisy..”…..Again, I refer you to the context: “…or none of them!!!”

    Given that humanity it a hypocritical being at best…of which you are a prime example…I believe the American flag should fly over US buildings and federal property and, if the people of the various states want a flag with this, that or the other symbol (including Confederate or Native American symbols), they should have the right to vote for such in a referendum…The US was fighting to separate from Britain…The War between the States was a successful effort to keep 11 states from separating from the USA…There a significant difference in our historical context…

    You are just being a silly turd. I was–and you damned well know it–describing the hypocrisy regarding the Stars and Bars and the Stars and Stripes that is palpable and I am arguing that the states should be able to design their state flags in keeping with their heritage; and they are! However, there are 50 state capitols (not just the one capitol you incorrectly cited) and in our system, these states have a certain level of constitutional autonomy regarding certain matters under our system…and it is and should be up to the citizens of the various states to determine what flag they want…If they don’t want a flag with a certain reference to this, that or the other, they should be allowed to determine that via a referendum in their respective states….Of course, that is not not and should not be the case regarding the first ten amendments (The Bill of Rights), interstate commerce, civil rights, equal protection, freedom of speech and association, equal justice under the law, etc.—things cited in the US Constitution and upheld by Judicial Review and precedent…I also support the “supremacy clause” in the Constitution…which also has been upheld by the Courts and history…It has not been overturned by amendment…

    Under your illogic, no flag in any state could have any symbolic reference to the indigenous Native American since Native Americans fought very hard to keep the US out of what they deemed to be their ancient and hallowed territory and many still see their reservations as separate and autonomous sovereign lands…You do recall the “Indian Wars”, don’t you? Oh, maybe you don’t!

    Here is the deal, Deb-tard, if I said black was black, you’d piss all over yourself to say “No, black is white”….If I said the sugar is sweet, you’d piss all over yourself to say, “No, sugar is sour!” If I said crap stinks, you’d find a pile and wallow in for an hour and then say. “No, it smells like roses!” If I said, water is wet, you’d dispute that, too! The other deal is, Gal, I call it the way I see it and I’m not gonna kiss your ass just because you have a gal’s name….You want to do battle…and I’m up for anything you dish out…I described you as female dog earlier. I was terribly mistaken…I really don’t want to demean female dogs by placing you among them…They are way above you in every way possible…Your one way road doesn’t run through my town…

    As for dishonoring the flag, virtually everything you spew spits on the intent of the various provisions of the US Constitution (for which the Stars and Bars is a symbol)….and the words of the Pledge of Allegiance (which is a belated symbolic gesture in support of the provisions of the Constitution)…especially and insofar as “equal justice” for Joe Paterno is concerned…and that is where this started….You butt heads with yourself coming and going…..

  37. Deb says: Nov 21, 2011 3:37 PM

    Okay … you’ve gone off the deep end again, and I don’t have time for this. Stop putting words in my mouth. I haven’t said anything about the Confederate flag not flying because it flew over slave states. That’s all you. I’ve simply said it shouldn’t fly because that’s not the flag of our country in 2011.

    We don’t need to be flying the flags of defeated rebel governments (the Confederacy) or ousted governments (Great Britain) over public buildings in 2011. The only flag we need to fly is the one of the current government. We don’t live in the past. The Stars and Bars, the Union Jack, the flag of the Texas Republic belong in museums. This is the United States of America and only today’s flag should fly today. It’s not rocket science.


  38. harleyspoon says: Nov 21, 2011 4:54 PM

    It is not rocket science either that there are 50 states and a few US possessions that already fly their own flags (some with the stars and bars somewhere on them) over state government government buildings….debbie doofus….and just because your bowels are in an uproar, that doesn’t mean they’re gonna pull’em down…..Hell, you must blind…or maybe you haven’t take time to look at state buildings when you drive by…Every government building is not a federal building…some of them, surprise of surprises, are state government buildings…Everytime you respond to something I say, you make yourself look more out of touch with the world you live in…Go get a Cardui tablet!!!

  39. terryjonesxp says: Mar 8, 2012 9:18 PM

    Does anyone remeber the super WAC 16 teams It was a mess five time zones, rotating divisions, great riverties being lost, and the travel cost. It split into 2 conferences. The lesser WAC and the Mountain West. I put the idea of a 16 team super conference on the K97 F.M. jackass wall. Look at the Big East. Do you see how it is cracking up? A 16 team super conference give me a break!!!! Please look at the C-USA /Mountain West merger. 22 teams in football. Hell no!!!!!

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