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Oklahoma State has earned a title shot they won’t receive

Mike Gundy, Shelley Budke AP

Whether you thought Oklahoma State deserved a shot at the BCS national title or not, you know the question is going to be asked for the next week leading up to the rematch between LSU and Alabama.

With the third-ranked Cowboys topping No. 4 Stanford 41-38 in overtime in the Fiesta Bowl, has Oklahoma State earned the chance to play one more game?

The question, of course, is rhetorical; OSU can’t do anything about the national title game now besides campaign for a few AP votes here and there, but there’s something to be said for winning what has arguably been the most complete conference in college football this season from top to bottom.

Yes, more complete than the SEC. Bowl records may be worthless to some, but it’s worth noting that the Big 12 is 6-1 in bowl games thus far. Regardless of the circumstances, the Big 12 has shown up in the postseason.

Regular season wins over Kansas State, Baylor, Oklahoma and now Stanford — all Top 20 teams — and Oklahoma State’s resume speaks for itself. Of course, so does its one loss on the road against Iowa State. It’s tough to be perfect, though, and college football’s current postseason format is one that demands either perfection, or the next best alternative. But we won’t travel down that road again. Y’all already know how we feel about the BCS.

What we have in the meantime is water cooler debate, especially if Alabama can find a way to knock off top-ranked LSU. The Tide, the Cowboys… perhaps even the Tigers still, or Oregon after tonight’s Rose Bowl win… could all lay claim they’re still the best team in the land. One thing’s for sure: whichever team really is the best will be decided next to said water coolers. And on message boards. And blog sites like this one, rather than the place it rightfully should be.

OSU may not be the best team in college football, but they managed to come from behind against Stanford and the best player in college football Andrew Luck, and come out on the right side of the W-L column. That has at least earned them a shot to compete. Heck, they earned that shot when they won the Big 12 by destroying Oklahoma. But it’s a shot they won’t get.

And this isn’t about doing what will benefit Oklahoma State.

This is about doing what will benefit college football.

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100 Responses to “Oklahoma State has earned a title shot they won’t receive”
  1. lanzurrah says: Jan 3, 2012 1:27 AM

    Stanford pissed away the game. Shaw did his best Marty Schottenheimer impression. Feel bad for Luck.

  2. crazyfootballfun says: Jan 3, 2012 1:37 AM

    another reason we need a playoff system! Absolutely okla state deserves a shot as do 4 to 6 other teams. We can no do this so subjectively and so partisanly. For example if next year USC and Oregon are 1 and 2 and one of them loses to the other, ( and say all things similar to this year are in play) would the voters ever consider them playing again in the national championship? Of course not..cause they aren’t the SEC. And some of these bowl games were decided on who travels best…( virginia tech) and left out Boise State. Come on!

  3. gopokes0714 says: Jan 3, 2012 1:43 AM

    So proud of my Cowboys! it took us a while to get going but we never give up!

    We dropped a game, but we have beat every ranked opponent, and beat 3 top 10 teams!

  4. vincentbojackson says: Jan 3, 2012 1:47 AM

    That would have been a great playoff game.

    But I guess the BCS school presidents think it’s more fun letting computers a sports writers decide national championships than actually settling it on the field.

  5. mdeatherage says: Jan 3, 2012 1:51 AM

    100% baloney. Had this been a seeded 4-team playoff, LSU (#1) would have played Oklahoma State (#4), and given LSU’s defense and Stanford’s lack of same tonight, it seems clear LSU would win that. Similarly, Alabama would beat Stanford. Then we’d have the same title game, except it would be held after two other games, with more injuries and more cost.

    The only difference? The sportswriters who set the seeding through their polls would get to wash their hands of it, which is all they’re after. They want to say who is #1 and who is not, but never have anyone hold them responsible for that. They don’t care if colleges and students have to play 3 more games during the Christmas holiday if it makes their work — completely disconnected from student life — easier.

    This consistent playoff crap is not about what’s best for college football. It’s about thousands of media professionals who are completely disconnected form actual colleges wanting the sports to be as disconnected as they are so their jobs can be easier. Hold playoffs on Christmas! Let’s have 3 more games while the dorms are closed and none of the students can attend! Why should college sports be about colleges when writers and TV personalities can make it about *them?*

  6. barnesaintnoble says: Jan 3, 2012 1:57 AM

    I am no fan of the BCS, but have some thoughts on the original post.

    In the Big12 (and even Pac12 minus USC), defense is an afterthought. Most teams have mediocre defenses, OSU has an awful one and it would have cost them the game if it wasn’t for a short FG miss by a freshman kicker. They are fantastic at generating turnovers, but that’s about it. Defense wins championships, I know it’s sooo overstated, but you can’t deny the statement’s truth. Offense just scores points and makes highlights that people vote based off of.

    Oklahoma State might have the best offense, but no way does it have the best team.

    I do wish the BCS would have at least given us the Oklahoma State vs. Oregon matchup that would have been the most entertaining game ever, but Rose Bowl rules win out.

  7. barnesaintnoble says: Jan 3, 2012 2:03 AM

    You think it’s about sportswriters? No man, its only about money. It’s about how much money the Big-6 conferences generate, it’s about how much the bowl directors and execs in every city make, it’s about how much the NCAA makes. The NCAA would actually make more in a playoff. Think about how visible the NCAA logo is during the NCAA Basketball tournament, now think about how much you see it during bowl season.

  8. Pac12Ute says: Jan 3, 2012 2:45 AM

    Dear Santa, Next year for Christmas please bring SEC homers a clue, especially to mdeatherage. When you’ve got an entire conference (SEC) that can’t play offense, do you seriously wonder how your teams all come out with great defensive stats? I’ll give you a hint, your teams don’t know how to move the ball. The SEC’s best offensive team was Arkansas (25th) followed by Alabama (30th) and Georgia (37th). There is not another SEC team in the top 50. Don’t believe me?

    I can understand LSU being in the championship game because they’ve at least played teams in the top 50 (West Virginia and Oregon) and proved they can play to the level of their competition. Something about Les Miles that never ceases to amaze me, but he’s a quality coach.

    Alabama… they should have been playing Stanford tonight. Then again, the last time I recall Alabama playing a “2nd rate” team as an at-large in a BCS game they were handily defeated by Utah 31-17. Before that game, Saban noted that his club still was the only team to have an undefeated regular season in a “real BCS conference.” I love seeing that man look like an idiot.

  9. kirtosu says: Jan 3, 2012 2:56 AM

    I can tell an Sec post a hundred miles away, its always got the underlining assumption that they are the best conference and that’s where the logic falls short. You can’t be the best unless you are challenge the best other conference teams every year. There’s no last season arguments to be made, you gotta earn it. SEC is not the best conference this year, but how can it be proven playing Big 10 teams or inter conference teams in bowl games? Play the game, earn the bragging rights. It’s a fault of ESPN money and BCS rankings to a major extent, but you need to play outside your conference. Bana had a weak schedule and we all know it. As for defense, OSU has a good defense and we play a lot more defensive downs in Big 12. SEC has lack luster offenses… That’s a fact this year.

  10. saintcasey says: Jan 3, 2012 6:04 AM

    Give me a break! Were we watching the same game? OSU should have lost to Stanford, who got destroyed by Oregon, who got destroyed by LSU! I once thought OSU deserved a shot too….until last night. LSU would have dominated OSU and won by at least 30. As much as I hate to admit it, Alabama is the only team in the country that can beat LSU.

    Also, I said it when Mark Richt did it and I said it again when David Shaw did it. NEVER TRUST A KICKER!!! The way Stanford’s offense was manhandling OSU defense, they should have been playing for a TD and not trying to set up their kicker. Same goes for Georgia. And guess what, they both lost because of it. Never go to the kicker until you HAVE to.

  11. gamustangdude says: Jan 3, 2012 6:20 AM

    Stop it Ben, your starting to sound like a 12 year old middle school girl who didn’t make the cheerleading squad. A lucky win versus Stanford doesn’t entitle OSU to anything. If they wanted a title shot they should’ve beaten Iowa State. The fact is, if it wasn’t for a freshman kicker, they would be on the losing end of this game. Way to hold on to a notion that has been settled already. OSU is the 3rd best team in the country plain and simple.

  12. blueglaze says: Jan 3, 2012 6:43 AM

    Ya… OSU vs LSU would look exciting on paper, but OSU would have been manhandled Bama has the ability to disappoint LSU fans.

  13. whyalwaysthehate says: Jan 3, 2012 6:55 AM

    Can we stop listening to the Alabama Utah score please? If you want an update on where the program really is look at last year’s C1 Bowl game against Michigan Sate.. 49-7. The SEC has proven out again this year that they can score with anyone and play big defense. The OK ST first quarter jitters last night would have put them in a hole against Bama or LSU that they would not have escaped. Ask Oregon. Stanford would not have beaten Wisconsin yesterday. I’m all for a playoff, but based upon this year’s bowl results it might have been an SEC tournament.

  14. florida727 says: Jan 3, 2012 7:25 AM

    I’m not going to degrade the play of teams from other conferences because to do so would be idiotic. I’m an SEC fan, but I’m also a realist. COULD Stanford beat LSU? Sure. COULD Oklahoma State beat Alabama? Sure. Personally, I think they’d both get exposed defensively, and their offenses wouldn’t be as prolific against an LSU or ‘Bama defense, but for anyone to outright state that just because a team has a high-powered offense west of the Mississippi, that means they’d lose to an SEC team, well, that’s just plain ludicrous.

    The bottom line though is that we, as fans, get cheated every year by a bunch of suits who continually prevent us from getting what we want… a championship determined ON THE FIELD. And don’t give me this crap about how it can’t be done due to academics. They do it at the DII and DIII levels every year, and their students (miraculously I suppose) graduate every year.

    Yes, someone (or more than one) would complain every year. 4 team playoff? #5 feels cheated. 8 team playoff? #9 feels cheated. Remember though, #9 (if they were #8) would have to run off THREE STRAIGHT upsets to claim a national title. Not likely to happen, so their ‘complaint’ would likely fall on deaf ears. At least eliminate the screwing of teams like Oklahoma State, Stanford, and a few others and give fans what they want in the process… a TRUE National Champion. End of rant…

  15. ob1canobie says: Jan 3, 2012 7:34 AM

    One thing I have yet to see in the ‘important’ bowl games thus far is defense. It wasnt in the Rose Bowl and it wasnt on display last night in the Fiesta Bowl. Both games rocked the record books for offense, but not many whispers about the defense. I would loved to have seen anything other than a repeat of a game already played in the season for the national championship. I am fairly sure that either LSU or Alabama had better defense than I have seen on display so far. Do those teams have the offense to hang with any of the four teams I have mentioned? We will never know now. I think it would have been a way better match up to have the two teams of the Fiesta Bowl play LSU and Alabama. Oh yeah, and I wouldnt want to be a kicker in going to class at Stanford today either…

  16. hrudey says: Jan 3, 2012 7:39 AM

    “What we have in the meantime is water cooler debate, especially if Alabama can find a way to knock off top-ranked LSU. The Tide, the Cowboys… perhaps even the Tigers still, or Oregon after tonight’s Rose Bowl win… could all lay claim they’re still the best team in the land.”

    If you had just gone with Oklahoma State, you have at least a defensible argument (though it’d be hard to claim to be the best team when you piss away a title game spot at Iowa State). But seriously, Oregon? Not only will they have a worse record than LSU even if the Tigers lose, but my inside sources tell me that these two teams have already played and Oregon got beat decisively.

  17. centexhorn says: Jan 3, 2012 7:47 AM

    We actually do play good defense in the Big 12. Anyone who suggests otherwise is just ignorant of the Big 12. And, no, Baylor is not representative of the entire conference. Statistically, Texas has one of the best defenses in the country. We held Cal to 7 yards rushing in our bowl game. And we forced 5 turnovers.

  18. tidebarrister says: Jan 3, 2012 8:07 AM

    OSU is a very good team, but it’s not better than Alabama and it’s not even close! So much has been said and written about the Big 12’s superiority this season, but here are the facts. During the 2011-2012 football season, the Big 12 Conference had the worst defenses in the FBS! There are 120 universities in the FBS (formerly Div. I) and 9 out of 10 (or 90%) of Big 12 teams had defenses that ranked in the bottom half (anywhere from 61-120) of all teams. In fact, the best team in the Big 12, OSU, ranked #106, followed by Texas Tech at #114, Baylor at #116 and the worst defensive team in the FBS and a also a Big 12 member, was KU at #120! Additionally, OSU’s defense was so bad, that it gave up more yards per game (445.67) than Alabama’s (191.25) and LSU’s (252.08) defenses combined (443.33)! Also OSU’s defense gave up 590 yards (347 passing and 243 rushing) to Stanford in the recently completed Fiesta Bowl! Additionally anyone who watched that game AND is honest, knows that Stanford should have won that game. Stanford outplayed OSU for most of the game and had Stanford’s freshman kicker made a “chip shot” field goal instead of shall I say “choking,” no one would be even talking about OSU!

    The only Big 12 team to rank in the top 50% of all defenses in the FBS was UT at #14. If you know anything about football (and from reading many of these posts I seriously doubt that), then you know that defense wins championships, not offense! The SEC is a defensive-minded conference and that is one the main reasons that the SEC has won 5 consecutive BCS national championships (and the 6th one will be won Jan. 9th)! Until the other conferences figure out that you win national championships with defense, they’ll keep losing to teams (whether they be from the SEC or another conference) that have great defenses. Case in point. In 2008, OU set an NCAA FBS record by scoring 702 points that season, for an average of 54 points per game heading into the national championship game against Florida. Final score, Florida 24- OU 14. Florida’s defense dominated that game forcing turnovers and making big play after big play. And in case you can’t subtract, Florida’s defense held OU to 40 points under it’s season average! Look what Alabama did to Texas in the 2009 national championship game. Alabama’s defense knocked Colt McCoy out of the game, and when the game got close at 24-21 late in the 4th quarter, Alabama’s defense sacked UT’s backup QB and forced a fumble. Alabama recovered, went on to score a TD and ultimately won the game 37-21. And just last year Auburn (who’s defense wasn’t great, but who’s defense was great against Oregon) held Oregon’s supposedly unstoppable offense to 19 points, roughly 30 points below its season average of approximately 50 points per game! Again, defense wins! So to all of you SEC haters, maybe one day you’ll realize that defense is superior to offense and that is why the SEC is dominant!

    PS And a little love to the Trojans. The thing that made the USC teams of the mid 2000s great, was that unlike most of the coaches in the formerly PAC-10 Conference, Pete Carroll understood that you win with defense. Yes USC had great offensive weapons in Matt Leinart, Reggie Bush, Lendell White, Mike Williams, etc., but what made them perennial champions was their outstanding defenses. And guess what cost them the national championship to UT in 2006? Bad defense! Remember USC scored 38 points, but their defense gave up 41. When an offense scores 38 points, the team should win. Defense wins. It always has and always will!

  19. texasxmas1 says: Jan 3, 2012 8:10 AM

    The real Cowboys were under .500 all-time prior to this season. Last night, the Cowboy fans enjoyed it when the 2011, once in a lifetime Cowboys showed up. I am rooting for Oklahoma A&M tonight, but…the game is just like I thought it would be. The other one loss teams, Alabama (LSU loss), Stanford (Oregon loss) and even Boise State (TCU loss) deserved a title shot more than Okie A&M, each having lost to a much better team than the Iowa State team that beat the Cowboys, which barely beat s0-s0 Texas A&M or overachieving K-State.

  20. texbornlsufan says: Jan 3, 2012 8:25 AM


    Cal……… Did you say Cal?

    Really Cal!!!!!!!

    You are kidding me Cal !!!!!!!

    You can do better than Cal !!!!!!!!

  21. cowhawkfan says: Jan 3, 2012 8:47 AM

    LSU is a very good team,’but all they have proven so far is that they are the best team in the SEC. If they beat ‘Bama again, they affirm they are the best team in the SEC. To bad we will never know if they can beat the beat teams from the other conferences and earning the National Title.

    ‘Bama is also a good team. So far, one of the best teams in the SEC. Can’t eve say the 2nd best since they didn’t play in the conference Championship. If they beat LSU, they darn the right to say they are as good as LSU, the best team in the SEC. To bad we’ll never know if they can beat the best teams in the other conferences.

    OSU has at least proven they are the best in their conference and beaten the best from the PAC-12. I’m not going to hold a loss after a tragic campus even against them.

    I fully expect thumbs down from all you LSU and BAMA homers. ‘Bama you don’t belong in this game after already losing to LSU. Tigers, you are in all probability, the best in the nation. You shoulda had the chance to prove it on the field.

  22. mjpirkle says: Jan 3, 2012 8:49 AM

    Cowboys wont get the chance… well they shoulda beat and UNRANKED pooh butt school instead of losing and crying now… One thing about watching last nights game… LSU or Bama would totally destroy that weak offensive line and unmobile QB. Stanford was big and SLOW on Denfense and still in the backfield with chances but do to their creeping rush always came up short. This would not happen against the SEC teams in the title game…. OSU would be shutdown on Offense QB knocked out of the game by 2nd Qrt and the D they have ( if you wanna call it that ) would just be waving red flags yelling Olay….

  23. thefiesty1 says: Jan 3, 2012 8:50 AM

    The way they played the first and third quarter was not impressive. They would not have faired better against a great defense like LSU. They’ll still be # 3 after the LSU-Bama loser.

  24. mjpirkle says: Jan 3, 2012 8:54 AM

    reply to Pac12Ute : the reason your team outs up points is they PLAY noDefensive teams…the reason SEC teams dont put up BASKETBALL scores is because we are a BALANCED system of Offense and Defense.. not to mention ( wheres your high flying basketball scoing teams of the past Decade in the National title…) Defense wins titles…. period

  25. polegojim says: Jan 3, 2012 8:55 AM

    They ‘should’ have lost this game, so I personally don’t give them any more credit for the win.

    It sounds quaint, but OKU Lucked out the win against Stanford. They wouldn’t have done so well against LSU.

  26. raiderredleg says: Jan 3, 2012 9:02 AM

    tidebarrister says:
    Jan 3, 2012 8:07 AM
    OSU is a very good team, but it’s not better than Alabama and it’s not even close
    Are you kidding me?

    I am all for school/conference pride, but OSU is a great football team that beat some VERY good football programs down the stretch including a QB that is going to be the #1 pick in the upcoming NFL Draft.

    Last night was the greatest win by the OSU football program EVER. While the ISU loss eliminated them from the crappy BCS “process” they rebounded and beat two Top Ten programs (OU and Stanford).

    That should be something celebrated by all OSU/Big 12 fans and at least grudging respected by everyone else with an ounce of football knowledge in their brains.

  27. C S says: Jan 3, 2012 9:03 AM

    Wow, so much bias.
    “OSU may not be the best team in college football, but they managed to come from behind against Stanford and the best player in college football Andrew Luck”
    You got the first part right. Yes, OSU is NOT the best team in college football. Not even the second best.
    “but they managed to come from behind against Stanford”
    but they also managed to lose to an unranked team. Not exactly ‘best team’ material.
    “the best player in college football Andrew Luck”
    NO. Luck is NOT the best player in college football. Hyped and bloated stats. Bunch of SEC hating hypocrites.
    Play against Tide or Tiger defense, you will see how real their ‘explosive’ offenses are.

  28. crazycane says: Jan 3, 2012 9:08 AM

    Why are there so many long post’?

    It’s simple, ‘Bama didn’t even win their division within the conference and shouldn’t be in the game!! If the BCS formula is every game matters, ‘Bama crapped the bed in their chance.

    But it doesn’t matter since all you will watch like sheep giving the BCS exactly what they need.

    “If you don’t win your conference you shouldn’t be playing for the National Championship”

    – Nick Saban LSU 2003

  29. boomerdt says: Jan 3, 2012 9:15 AM

    I agree OSU should have been in the national title game. No conference should ever have both teams in the national title game.

    Though lets be honest. LSU should just be crowned champ. They went undefeated and played 3 real non conference games.

    As for college football post seasons – now that I’ve been burned (big 12 only got 1 team in the BCS), I agree the bowls have too much say. To pick a team because of past encounters (Va Tech) is ridiculous. Lets at least fix the system to take the highest ranked teams for the BCS games. Really though why can’t we just carry that out throughout all the bowls?

  30. tidebarrister says: Jan 3, 2012 9:19 AM


    Once you again you are living proof that some people never let facts get in the way of their opinion! Contrary to what you wrote and apparently believe, OSU DID NOT beat the best team in the Pac-12 Conference. The best team in the PAC-12 Conference would be the conference champion, The University of Oregon. OSU did not play Oregon, but instead played and defeated Stanford. In case you forgot, Oregon defeated Stanford 52-30. Please get your facts straight. Otherwise you come off looking real stupid!

    PS And LSU beat #3 Oregon 40-27 to open the 2011 season and also beat the following ranked teams:

    #2 Alabama, #3 Arkansas, #12 Georgia, #16 West Virginia, #17 Florida, #19 Auburn and
    #25 Mississippi State. By my count, that’s 8 ranked teams that LSU beat this season.

    LSU doesn’t need to play OSU or any other team(s) from other conferences to establish its supremacy. LSU’s results speaks for itself!

  31. raiderredleg says: Jan 3, 2012 9:31 AM


    You are entitled to you opinions, but Luck is definitely one of the two best college football players in the country this year (RGIII being the other).

    Both have taken their programs to level neither school has ever seen before (and may never see again).

    As an OSU fan I could help but have total respect for Luck as he continually made throw after throw when it counted. OSU threw the kitchen sink at him and he calmly handled it and ended up throwing only a handful of incompletions.

    BTW…OSU beat both RGIII and Luck (Heisman Trophy winner and runner up) this season. How many times has that happened ever?

  32. tubad4ya says: Jan 3, 2012 9:43 AM

    OSU had one lead last night, at the end, following the 3rd failure by Stanford’s kicker to put the game away. Do you find that convincing?

    The BCS is flawed, but OSU has no one but themselves (and Iowa State) to blame for their exclusion from the title game. Oh, and how did ISU fare in its bowl? ISU lost to Rugters. That’s a wrap for OSU’s 2011 season.

  33. tidebarrister says: Jan 3, 2012 9:52 AM


    You asked “Are you kidding me?”
    My answer, No!

    OSU is NOT a great team!
    OSU IS a great OFFENSIVE team!

    Did you not read any of the stats that I quoted above? I didn’t make any of them up, but found them on the NCAA’s Statistical Database for Football. OSU had a horrible defense this year and the numbers proved that!

    Again, out of 120 schools in the FBS, OSU’s defense was ranked #106. That’s only 14 spots from dead last and that honor belonged to another Big 12 school, KU!

    Again, OSU’s defense gave up more yards per game than Alabama’s and LSU’s defenses combined! Also, OSU’s defense gave up 590 yards of offense to Stanford in the just completed Fiesta Bowl.

    Now I know some will argue that it’s tough to play great defense in an offensive-minded conference like the Big 12. My answer to that argument would be Texas, which was ranked #14. How about Missouri, OU, Texas A & M and K-State? All five of these teams played the same conference schedule as OSU, yet they all had defenses far superior to OSU’s.

    Great teams are solid offensively and defensively; they are not one-dimensional like OSU. Alabama has the #1 defense in the FBS, but it also has a very good offense. Alabama had the 30th ranked offense in the FBS in 2011. For those of you doing the math, that places Alabama’s offense in the top 25% of all offenses in the FBS (30/120).

    I don’t mean to “rain on OSU’s parade,” as you have every right to be proud of OSU’s accomplishments this year, however being proud shouldn’t make you conveniently blind to the facts/truth. You can’t be a great team with a defense as bad as OSU’s was this year!

    I watched the Iowa State game from start to finish and the reason OSU lost was because of its rotten defense. OSU was up 24-7, but couldn’t stop Iowa State in the 2nd half and ended up losing the game. You’re not a great team when you lose to an unranked team that finished the regular season 6-6, especially when you had a 17 point lead! And please don’t give me any of the BS about how the tragedy that befell OSU in the days before the game, affected the team’s play. If that were true, please explain how OSU played jumped out to a 24-7 lead in the 1st half?

    If OSU had played badly all game and had been blown out by Iowa State, then you’d have a legitimate argument. Instead a team with a very bad defense finally got exposed. Case closed!

  34. cometkazie says: Jan 3, 2012 9:59 AM

    OSU = Ohio State University, not the comeuppance from the former Indian Territories.

    OkSU is just as easy to type.

  35. cowboycjn says: Jan 3, 2012 10:13 AM

    Its all about MONEY – the almighty $$$.
    There is no system, AP poll?? People just voting for #1, #2, #3, huh, give me a break. A system has to be set up where division winners (cream of the crop teams) play aganist each other to finially get to the true #1 & #2 in a final playoff to determine who is the national champ team.
    Cracks me up the bowl games are really just a money maker for certain people. The Potatoe bowl, the Pinstripe bowl, the Car Care bowl, hell lets let Scott tissue sponsor a Toilet Bowl game. Instead of top winners playing as it should be, you have teams 7-7 records playing in a bowl – what kind of crap is that? They don’t even have a winning season and they end up in a bowl.(absoutely meaningless)
    There has to be a system of you loose, tuff your out and only the winning teams proceed to the bowl games then eventually to the National Championship game. But then again that means reducing all these umpteen crazy invented bowls to a reasonable number of meaningful bowl games (which could be division titles bowl games leading to the national game) The saying of, “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it, well this system has been broke a long time, but then again why fix it because writters get to vote their way and it means extra dollars in certain pockets.

  36. burntorangehorn says: Jan 3, 2012 10:17 AM

    OSU earned this title shot before even playing the Fiesta Bowl. Alabama lost its right to a title shot against LSU during the regular season.

  37. raiderredleg says: Jan 3, 2012 10:18 AM

    tidebarrister says:
    Jan 3, 2012 9:52 AM

    You asked “Are you kidding me?”
    My answer, No!

    OSU is NOT a great team!
    OSU IS a great OFFENSIVE team!
    ————————————————–Well using YOUR logic:

    Alabama is NOT a great team!
    Alabama is a great DEFENSIVE team!

    I too watched ISU and OSU play and I also had the “pleasure” to watch Alabama play LSU (great offensive output by ‘Bama there wasn’t it?).

    Perhaps if your team could have mustered more than two Field Gold against the best team in the nation the rest of the statistics you mentioned might mean something.

    As far as the ISU game…It was an emotional night for the OSU Athletic program and to call that “BS” is shallow. It was the second plane crash/tragety to befall OSU in a decade. I think if you asked any fan of Marshall they will tell you losing coaches/players in that manner can leave a mark on a college for a long time.

    Anyway, YES OSU lost to a bad team, but rebounded and played great football down the stretch beating some great teams. How did Alabama respond to their loss? By closing out their cream puff out of conference schedule with Georgia Southern…PRICELESS!

    If ‘Bama offense again shows its “prowess” against LSU (or lack thereof), I totally expect OSU to end up as the #2 team in the nation, with Oregon, Stanford and Alabama rounding out the top five.

    BTW…Kudos for CFT putting the picture of the widow of the OSU Women’s Basketball Head Coach (Shelley Budke) recieving the Fiesta Trophy from Coach Gundy on this post.

    Really proud of Coach Gundy and the football program to take time from of celebrating a huge win to recognize the four people lost in that plane crash and also remember that life is so much more than just about college football and the BCS.

  38. burntorangehorn says: Jan 3, 2012 10:20 AM

    As for the relative conference strengths, anyone but an SEC homer should recognize that the Big 12 is the strongest overall this year. Need math?

    And that was only through Dec. 31st games. The rest of the results will be added soon.

  39. bozosforall says: Jan 3, 2012 10:30 AM

    cometkazie says:
    Jan 3, 2012 9:59 AM
    OSU = Ohio State University, not the comeuppance from the former Indian Territories.

    OkSU is just as easy to type.

    So is OhSU.

    So be it!

  40. orthomarine says: Jan 3, 2012 10:30 AM

    Only LSU can save the BCS and it’s system. If Bama wins, then there is a 3 way tie for the N.C.- OSU proved last night they deserved their shot, but never got it…. I have no hate for the SEC, any of it’s schools-same goes for the Big 12; but 3 teams with 1 loss would be a train reck if you declared any of them #1

  41. linedrivehit says: Jan 3, 2012 11:06 AM

    National Champions dont lose to unranked, 21-point underdogs with a losing record. And, for the record, the only reason OSU beat Stanford is because their kicker flubbed a chip shot field goal at the end of regulation.

    Do I want a playoff? Sure. But we all knew the rules when the season started.

  42. linedrivehit says: Jan 3, 2012 11:08 AM

    “…but 3 teams with 1 loss would be a train reck if you declared any of them #1…”


    And this is different from any other year because…

  43. orthomarine says: Jan 3, 2012 11:17 AM


    I agree man…. I have never been fond of the BCS….

  44. cometkazie says: Jan 3, 2012 11:34 AM

    bozosforall says:
    Jan 3, 2012 10:30 AM
    cometkazie says:
    Jan 3, 2012 9:59 AM
    OSU = Ohio State University, not the comeuppance from the former Indian Territories.

    OkSU is just as easy to type.

    So is OhSU.

    So be it!
    The BuckEyes were there first!

    I like the ring of Okie State.

    Imagine me defending the SuckEyes . . .

  45. sweetsweetdrew says: Jan 3, 2012 11:46 AM

    does anyone think that an LSU-Stanford or LSU-OkSt game wouldn’t be a complete blowout? i mean honestly think that?

  46. hrudey says: Jan 3, 2012 11:46 AM

    burntorange: Yeah, Alabama “lost” its shot. But then in the aftermath of that game, Oklahoma State, Stanford, Boise State, Oklahoma, Oregon, Arkansas, Clemson, Virginia Tech, Houston, Penn State, Southern Miss and Cincinnati went out and lost their shot. Yes, every team with 0 or 1 losses after the LSU-Alabama game went out and lost again, other than LSU and Alabama. I still would have rather seen Oklahoma State go and bring back the traditional Big Nine loss in the BCS Championship game (made famous by Oklahoma). But in the end, it’s hard to say that Alabama should be punished more for losing to LSU than any of these other teams should be for losing later to inferior competition. It’s hard to go with the “Anyone but Bama” card when each of the candidates goes out and loses!

  47. steveintennessee says: Jan 3, 2012 12:39 PM

    lets seee…a Cinncinati team which lost to a lousy TN team and finished 9-3 beats a avg at best Vanderbitl team (6-6)by 10 not exactlly inpresive considering records…a Mich State team wins in triple overtime due to another example of lousy kicking(by UGA) who still put up points….the rest of the SEC teams 3 of them sent Big nothing teams home losers and they scored points holding the opposition to little. Lets add the waxing PSU suffered to a non SEC team(not exactlly a conference of dominace)…the National Champ game will have another SEC title. Anyone watching OkSU and Stanford had to notice a complete lack of defense who thinks they could play with either LSU or Bama is blind or living in a cave. So it goes good pitching beats good hitting and defense wins games since football was created. Hate all you want on the SEC…almost every yr after the bowls are over we win more than we lose. The only reason we will lose one more(this yr.) is because the SEC will also win one tooo. How many yrs in a row National champs? You already know the answer. Now consider LSU will be better next yr than this yr…..We SEC folks will be listening to your crying again next yr. Oh and how many yrs has OSU(over rated state univ.) lost to SEC teams? More than a decade worth in a row. Bring on the hating trolls.

  48. tidebarrister says: Jan 3, 2012 1:05 PM


    You can try to twist what I wrote to prove your point, but doing so only makes you look less knowledgeable than you already look.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with my logic when I wrote that Alabama is a great team, as compared to OSU. Alabama is the #1 defensive team and the #30 best offensive team in the FBS (out of 120 teams). OSU’s offense ranks #3, but its defense ranks #106 out of 120 teams. Those are the facts and no amount of “spin” can change that!

    An offense that ranks 30/120 or is in top 25%, IS a very good offense. Can you say the same about a defense that ranks 106/120? Alabama is a great team because it has a great defense, a good offense and its only loss was in overtime to the #1 team in the country by 3 points!

    OSU on the other hand lost to a team that it had a 24-7 lead on, a team that was never ranked at anytime during the 2011 season and a team that ultimately finished with a 6-7 record. OSU has no one to blame but itself for not having a chance to play for the national championship. Championship caliber teams DO NOT lose to mediocre teams. Alabama lost to the #1 team in the country, not to a team that finished unranked and with a 6-7 record. End of story!

    Oh and by the way, OSU lost to a team that lost to Texas, Baylor, Missouri, Texas A & M, Oklahoma and K-State by a combined score of 227-103! Alabama lost one game to the #1 team (13-0) in the country by 3 points in overtime! There is no comparison!

    PS And since you brought up the issue of non-conference schedules, let’s take a look at OSU’s 2011 non-conference schedule. OSU played “powerhouses” Louisiana-Lafayette, Arizona (4-8) and perennial FBS “power” Tulsa. Give me a freakin’ break. At least Alabama played and beat a nationally ranked non-conference opponent in #23 Penn State and did it on the road (and before Penn State fell apart with the Sandusky scandal).

    Also, Alabama has actually played more ranked teams that OSU. Alabama played #1 LSU (and will play them again in a week), #12 Florida, #14 Arkansas, #23 Penn State and #24 and defending national champion Auburn. OSU played #8 Texas A & M, #10 Oklahoma, #14 K-State, #22 Texas and #4 Stanford. By my count, that’s Alabama playing 6 ranked teams and OSU playing 5. As such, get off your “high horse” when it comes to strength of schedule.

  49. lance227 says: Jan 3, 2012 1:09 PM

    These chicken—- coaches never cease to amaze me! You’ve only got the best QB in the nation and OK St has shown absolutely no ability to stop him, so do you allow him to do his thing and throw yet another TD pass to won the game for you? Of course not! You put the brakes on him, had the game over to a FG kicker who’s already missed once and say a prayer. Oops!

    And we all know that Mark Richt learned his craft at the foot of the master chicken— Bobby B! You mean my ace kicker missed wide right again from 45? Dadgummit!!!

  50. onedallasguy27 says: Jan 3, 2012 1:18 PM

    To all those that are throwing out OSU won to a missed FG..correct me if I am wrong but the bama/LSU game was decided because bama missed what 4 or 5 fields goals? Get a kicking game bama. -OSU has the one of the best.

    For the guys going on about defenses….OSU has one the best when it comes to forcing turnovers. Account for the fact that they spend/need only around 2 mins to score that leaves a lot of time for the D to be on the field. Matter of fact, they have had to endure more than any SEC team (I think the stat was 1002 plays for OSU vs 664 LSU). Still no excuse for letting a team like stanford run 175+ yds.

    I keep hearing this “Play against Tide or Tiger defense, you will see how real their ‘explosive’ offenses are.” what facts are based on this obvious ego-guess work? Don’t bother trying to use the connect a win from one team to doesn’t work like that.

    Well, we would love to, but Saban (who is as delusional as some SEC fanboys on this blog)thinks he can win and apparently SEC has more polling advantage. Computers say one thing, humans (with vested interest) say another. If I ask you to multiply 8483659 x 263484, do you write it down and do it longhand or do you grab a calculator and have a error free answer within seconds?

    Squash all that though,

    Playoffs work. Its proven and its track record is flawless. BCS has more holes than swiss cheese. Why not overlay the bowl games into into the playoffs. Whine about players having to play through finals??–div 2 and 3 do it already. No real downside to it cept the possiblity of more injuries(its football, not hopscotch- so people do get hurt), you gain 2 additional weeks of games=more money.

    Cotton bowl should be a decent conference gauge although K-state plays different than most of the Big 12, it should still be a decent game.

    Last thing, I’m all about supporting your team and conference, but facts are facts and what ifs are what ifs. OSU/LSU are never happening outside of your mind.

  51. LogicalConsideration says: Jan 3, 2012 1:25 PM

    To all those who fret about Oklahoma St. not getting a title shot—look at the d***** defense, or rather, the lack thereof, and its historical significance.

    In 2010, Oregon was #1 in PPG; 2009, Texas was #4 in PPG; 2008, Oklahoma was #1 in PPG. By contrast, in 2010, LSU was #49 in PPG; in 2009, Alabama was #29 in PPG; 2008, Florida was #3 in PPG. Good gravy! Haven’t we been down this road 3 years in a row and the voters decided not to pursue it a 4th?

    This year Oklahoma St. is #2 in PPG; LSU and Alabama are #12 and # 16 in PPG, respectively. In defensive PPG allowed, Alabama is #1 and LSU #2. Ok. St.? Why gee whillikers! There they are at #60….one spot behind…. Louisiana-Monroe?

    Was there anything in that video game of a game against Stanford to indicate Ok. St. would be able to score much against either the defense of LSU or Alabama? Those team teams actually put DBs and safeties on the field that are as big and as fast as any of the receivers Ok. St. has (probably fastER than). And, their offensive AND defensive lines would simply explode everything Ok.St. wanted to run on both sides of the ball.

    As much as it pains me to make the comparison, it would run exactly the way last year’s Oregon v. Auburn game went (and Auburn was actually a lowly #54 in PPG allowed while Oregon was #14). The SEC defenses are simply that much better and it skews the rest of the country into inflated offensive points scoring.

    File this prediction away. That scampering QB for Missouri is no Cam Newton or Tim Teebow and is going to get broken in half running that spread offense in the SEC next year).

    Quit complaining about “SEC homers” and how our defensive stats are flawed because they accrue against supposedly bad SEC offenses when the FACTS show that when it counts for all the marbles, those defenses are ALWAYS good enough to hold down the highpowered offenses from elsewhere enough to allow the good, but not gaudy, offenses from the top SEC teams to prevail.

    Instead of complaining, maybe its time to quit giving your head coaches a pass on criticism because they are running up big point numbers and start asking why they can’t recruit and coach up players good enough to create defenses to the SEC. Once you do that, you might win a national title and, in turn, push SEC coaches to figure out ways to score more points and high-powered defenses.

  52. jhawkin says: Jan 3, 2012 1:27 PM

    Oklahoma State has faced only one defense in the top 40 and that was Stanford. Stanford was the 24th best this year in yards and scoring. If everyone wants to bring up the Big 12’s bowl record then include the Pac 12’s 2-5. The bottom line is we will never know what would happen if you face Bama’s No.1 defensive in a playoff. Saban has been a proponent for a plus one since he’s been at Alabama as well as the rest of the SEC. You would think the only conference that would want to leave the system like it is would be the SEC considering winning 5 in a row and about to be 6 BCS Championships. The Big 12 now supports this plus one model so that leaves it up to Jim Delany to change his stance.

  53. kansas525 says: Jan 3, 2012 1:27 PM

    Everybody is saying how “lucky” OSU was to beat Stanford because Stanford missed a field goal, so they don’t deserve to be considered. Isn’t LSU undefeated because Alabama missed 4 field goals? Guess LSU doesn’t deserve to be considered good either.

    Right or Wrong?????

  54. normtide says: Jan 3, 2012 1:45 PM

    Lol, love the post saying the SEC has never proven anything, you must be new to NCAA Football, welcome to the show. If OSU proved the are the 2nd best team last night, maybe you need to watch more football. OSU is good, but not great. About SEC offenses, they seem to score plenty of points when the play OOC, ofc, maybe once again, you need to watch more football. The Little 12 is far from the best league, they can not even feild 12 teams, and it seems to be full of middle of the pack teams. The PAC is the 2nd best by a wide margin. After watching the rose and fiesta bowls, I have to ask, CAN WE PLEASE GET SOME DEFENSIVE PLAY?????? The haters can hate, the SEC prefers adding trophies over winning the blogs. It is simple, just beat us, on a regular basis. Then you wont have to be blogging excuses and reasons. The SEC prposed a playoff, CHECK YOUR FACTS, but the B1G shot it down. From there, we went on to dominate the BCS. So, who is to blame here?

  55. LogicalConsideration says: Jan 3, 2012 1:46 PM

    @kansas525—nice red herring. Ben Kercheval’s article, if you will remember waaaaay up thread, is based on the premise that beating Stanford means Ok.St. “deserves” a title shot. A few who disagree with him fell for it and argued that it was merely a luck win.

    The problem is with Kercheval’s premise. This Super Magic Win by Ok.St. was a BOWL game. The only way it could possible add anything to Ok.St.’s “deserving” a title shot is if there were a post-bowl +1 scenario. Unfortunately, that isn’t the system we have, so all arguments on who “deserves” a spot in the title game, which is a bowl game, not a playoff game, logically can only be based on games played prior to the bowl games.

    LSU was “lucky” that Alabama missed 4 FGs, but that has zero to do with their BCS title game merits. Same goes for Alabama’s “bad luck” at missing 4 FGs. Both cases are neither here nor there. A system, however fair or unfair it may be, was set up prior to the season (several seasons, actually) and it decreed LSU and Alabama should play. Luck had nothing at all to do with it. Performance as judged by both humans and computers had everything to do with it. Bowl games, no matter how exciting, have nothing to do with it.

  56. chucktheduck1 says: Jan 3, 2012 1:47 PM

    We all agree on the need for a true playoff system. But we don’t have that. If LSU wins next week, they are #1, without question. If #2 Alabama wins, then they are, without question. OSU plays defense like a group of Girl Scouts. Do the math. Over 300 points scored against them and they deserve a shot at #1? Give me a break. They deserved to go to the Fiesta Bowl and they deservced to win it. But they don’t deserve anything else.

  57. clonefan says: Jan 3, 2012 1:53 PM

    @ tidebarrister – what is your stake in the ground for determining if the Tide played more ranked teams than OSU? You say that Florida is #12, but I believe they are unranked and deserve it. However Texas A&M is also unranked (may manage to sneak back in, probably not), and you left out Baylor at # 12.

    So by counting the LSU games twice an unranked Florida team and a soon to be unranked Penn State, who I was never impressed with, you got to 6 ranked teams, I would argue more like 3 that Bama actually beat.

    And I would put OSU at 4 or 5 and they beat them all…

    Each team lost one game because they missed field goals OSU missed one field goal and Bama missed 4.

    I am making NO judgements. I am just correcting some glaring mistakes I keep seeing. You can all take em or leave..

  58. clonefan says: Jan 3, 2012 1:56 PM

    OOPS – Should have said BAMA in above post… Not Tide… Sorry…. Below is my error…

    @ tidebarrister – what is your stake in the ground for determining if the Tide played more ranked teams than OSU?

  59. 1historian says: Jan 3, 2012 2:01 PM

    I LOVE the present system because it gives me a chance to read some of these posts, and they are FUNNY.


  60. jhawkin says: Jan 3, 2012 2:13 PM

    I guess I side with the rest of the people that know football and think Alabama is way better than OSU and they are the No.2 team. Bama has the best defense and would crush your 100th ranked defense with Trent alone. Sorry but the bottom line is you were not good enough. Try agian next year.

  61. LogicalConsideration says: Jan 3, 2012 2:22 PM

    @clonefan–you can argue who has played more good teams. However, I think the key difference in judging the teams is who a team lost to and how. Alabama lost by 3 in OT to the consensus #1 team and easily could have won the game if any one of 5 or 6 plays go its way. The tragedy at Ok. St. notwithstanding, the loss to Iowa State was a bad, BAD loss. It would have been more excusable (and probably would have been in the eyes of the voting portion of the BCS poll) had Ok. St. showed up and gotten blown out early, too deep in a hole to recover. Instead, despite the tragedy, the came in and blew out Iowa St. to start the game, 24-7 with 12:33 left in the 3rd, and then could not hold the lead, giving up 17 straight to allow it to go to OT.

  62. reggiemcveggie says: Jan 3, 2012 2:25 PM

    cowhawkfan: uh, LSU beat Oregon, the best team in Stanfords conference. Are you a soccer fan who’s just bored?

  63. jonanthans says: Jan 3, 2012 2:40 PM

    It seems half of these posts are being made by people who never watched any of these games this season.

    LSU has a good offense, they averaged 40 points a game this season. Their defense is so good, along with a punter that gave up a TOTAL of 6 RETURN YARDS ALL SEASON, that many times their starting field position was extremely good.

    I would venture to say if Oregon played OkSU, Oregon would likely be favored. When Oregon played LSU, they found out that the defensive players on LSU were actually FASTER than they were, highlighted early by a defensive end Barkevious Mingo chasing down LaMichael James from behind. James ended up 18 rushes for 54 yards. Completely shut down. Oregon added a meaningless TD that made some think the game closer than what it was, for a final of 40-27. OkSU would likely not have scored as much as Oregon did.

  64. raiderredleg says: Jan 3, 2012 2:42 PM

    @ tidebarrister,

    I cry uncle your logic is so flawless I don’t know why anyone outside the SEC even tries to compete in DIV I college football.

    Besides why argue with a fanbase that is so passionate that one of its own fans would poison Auburn’s famous oaks at Toomer’s Corner over one game last year.


    I foolishly should have realized how great ‘Bama was after they scored an eye popping six points against LSU (Trent Richardson and ‘Bama’s offense really ran up the score against LSU) and then came back and handled the DIV I powerhouse of Georgia Southern 45-21 (‘Bama’s defense was only 3 TDs from pitching a shutout in that one).

    Georgia Southern is a DIV I school aren’t they?

    BTW…You do realize that if ‘Bama fails to beat LSU it probably will finish behind OSU (and perhaps Oregon) in the polls when it is all said and done?

  65. reggiemcveggie says: Jan 3, 2012 2:47 PM

    The big 12 should fully embrace title 9 and let women play football in conference games and non-conference against PAC-12 foes since tackling is now optional for both.

  66. reggiemcveggie says: Jan 3, 2012 2:49 PM

    I would appreciate it if when referring to Chokelahoma State people would put (Stillwater) next to OSU. Ohio State might be having a bad year but the cowpukes should never be confused with buckeyes. 100 years of mediocrity doesn’t vanish overnight.

  67. clonefan says: Jan 3, 2012 2:53 PM


    I wasn’t arguing who played more good teams… I was correcting tidebarrister….

    I struggle to decide who is actually the best. It very well may be LSU and Bama. I do believe that defense goes a long way towards winning championships. I don’t really have a horse in this race. Yes, I am a Big 12 fan and obviously an Iowa State fan, but I would be a fool to argue that losing to ISU = lousing to LSU. If I were to put in my 2 cents it is the fact that LSU and Bama for the most part have only played SEC and the other one lost teams for the most part only played their own conference. So when LSU or Bama wins… What do we really prove? That LSU or Bama is the best in the SEC?

    Now I am not trying to to continue the argument, but you appeared to take my prior comment the wrong way. My prior comment had more to do with correcting the record than taking any kind of stand.

    My predictions? I think LSU wins another tight one and I hate to admit it, but I think LSU probably beats OSU as well even though that is the game I would rather watch. I am not saying that OSU deserves it. I am tired of that argument and don’t want to get into it. You can decide for yourself where you think I stand and where I stand really doesn’t matter, now does it?

    I will make this comment though… I find it funny how many games this year were lost by field goals and how many 1 loss teams missed their chance because of 1 field goal. Yet Bama missed 4 field goals in the same game and gets a pass…

  68. reggiemcveggie says: Jan 3, 2012 2:58 PM

    clonefan: I guess LSU beating the PAC 12 and Big East Champions doesn’t really count for out of conference right? People who played Ok State this year out of conference did so thinking they’d be an easy win at the time the game was scheduled. The Big 12 can’t say they have a great non-conference schedule any more than anyone else.

  69. metallicatt316 says: Jan 3, 2012 3:08 PM

    I am so sick of all this OSU hype. So they had one good year out of the last 25. Whatever.
    They will go back to their loser ways next season when they lose their 40 year old quarterback.

  70. parrotdr says: Jan 3, 2012 3:09 PM

    While they had a great season, Okie State is a high scoring team that cannot stop anyone on defense–including Iowa State, a team that finished with a losing record after their bowl loss.

    Week after week of this will invariably result in a loss–this year to a BAD TEAM. Against Stanford they did not prove to be a better team, they just got lucky when Stanford missed the FG in regulation (and of course in OT).

    Bottom line–next year, win the games you’re supposed to win and you’ll be in it at the end. Lose that game and you’re subject to the whims of voters and losing the infamous “eye test”.

    The two best teams are in the BCS National Championship Game.

  71. raiderredleg says: Jan 3, 2012 3:23 PM

    metallicatt316 says:
    Jan 3, 2012 3:08 PM
    I am so sick of all this OSU hype. So they had one good year out of the last 25. Whatever.
    They will go back to their loser ways next season when they lose their 40 year old quarterback.
    OSU actually has done pretty good over the last couple of years.

    Ironically it was the decision to hire Les Miles that helped the turn around at OSU. His signature wins at OSU helped him get the LSU job.

    Coach Gundy struggled a bit replacing him at first, but T. Boone Pickens HUGE investment in the school and Gundy’s ability to put together awesome coaching staffs (Tim Beckman, Larry Fedora, Dana Holgerson) has certainly made them a program on the rise.

    NOBODY wanted Weeden (walk-on) or Blackmon (said to be too slow)…OSU gave both of them a chance and look how it turned out.

    OSU’s proximity to Texas combined with the improvements in the facilities/stadium will also help it in recruiting long term.

    Granted next year will be hard to replace Weeden/Blackmon, but they will still be capable of winning 9 or 10 games next year.

    Besides they are the #3 team in the nation (as of right now) with the 106th ranked defense. Improve the defense and the skys the limit!


  72. drexelvol says: Jan 3, 2012 3:24 PM

    To say OSU deserves a chance at the National Championship game when they won because of a missed chip-shot field goal by Stanford is a bit of a stretch.

    I would have said they deserved a shot prior to that game, but not based on how the OSU/Stanford game turned out.

  73. reggiemcveggie says: Jan 3, 2012 3:32 PM

    i just thought the gooners were the ones in OK who drank Kool-aid until they passed out. Now I know it’s everyone.

  74. clonefan says: Jan 3, 2012 3:33 PM

    @Reggiemcveggie I never claimed that the Big 12 had a great out of conference schedule. Some of the teams played decent out of conference schedules others played sisters of the poor. Much like most other conferences. LSU played an impressive non conference schedule. But most people usually argue that the team they played at the beginning of the season is a different animal than the one at the end. I assume LSU fans would argue that LSU improved throughout the year. After the preseason is done all they play is SEC and the same can be said for the Big 12 or any other conference. That is where my issue lies. We don’t get to see an end of the year snap shot of the SEC’s #1 play a different conference… any conference…

    I am not picking on the SEC. I am picking on the system. I definitely did not want two teams from the same conference playing each other. I would like to see two top teams from different conferences. Does that mean that I believe OSU should have been the team? I don’t know. I stopped trying to figure it out when it became Bama. It is what it is. I love college football and I love bowl season…

  75. LogicalConsideration says: Jan 3, 2012 3:36 PM

    @clonefan—my apologies for misunderstanding your intent. And truthfully, having grown up with StarWars, “clone” triggers a different first response in me. Realizing you are an Iowa State fan makes your original post make more sense. (dope-slaps forehead)

    As for Bama “getting a pass”, I don’t think that is a fair statement. It fell in the polls after its loss to LSU. Even though it was a relatively late loss (Nov. 5th), it turned out to still meet the adage “better to lose early than lose late.” They lost, absorbed the poll punishment for it and then watched as every single one of the 3 to 5 teams who probably would have leapfrogged them had one of those teams won out. So, they didn’t get a pass; they just lost early enough to have a chance to recover if other teams lost.

  76. clonefan says: Jan 3, 2012 3:45 PM

    @drexelvol “a missed chip-shot field goal” Stanford missed a 35 yarder and a 43 yarder. The 43 yarder would have won it. The 35 yarder? Maybe not…

    So by your logic, I assume that Bama doesn’t deserve a shot either? They only missed 4 field goals some around that 4o yard range some longer….

    Or does your logic mean that LSU doesn’t deserve the shot because they should have lost to Bama?

    Or does that logic not apply to SEC schools?

    Or should we just admit that there have been a lot of contenders knocked out by missed field goals this year and leave it at that…

  77. cameron poe says: Jan 3, 2012 3:51 PM

    To all of you folks celebrating these wins by Oregon and OSU while talking about what great games they were…Get over yourselves. Neither of those teams would have put up those points on an SEC team. To the person that said SEC teams have bad offenses thus the reason for GREAT defensive stats… I laugh in your face. Look at what SEC teams have done to every GREAT offense from other conferences the past 5 years. They got shut down. To the characters who still like to bring up the fact that Utah beat an Alabama team without Andre Smith and with a weak JPW and a team full of guys that mailed it in. Fine you win. Celebrate it. But like many of us “SEC Homers” know, one win does not earn you respect or make you a dynasty. What many of you are forgetting in all of your anger and fandom is that the SEC has earned its place atop the mountain. Year in and year out we beat your best. In fact most times we made them look weak and out of shape. So to all of you that want to spew your nonsense, I have one thing to say to you all SCOREBOARD!

  78. clonefan says: Jan 3, 2012 3:52 PM

    @LogicalConsideration I don’t mean to say Bama got a pass so much as an insult as to point out that we all are here on this site and we all pick out points and use them, but if you look carefully they can be used agaist you.

    Look at my most recent post. A bit of a slap I will admit, but lets be honest. Everyone has benefited from missed field goals this year. Especially Bama. As much as it cost them the game against LSU. All the other misses across the USA got the back in… So to use missed field goals as arguments gets kind of weak…

    But, as an ISU fan… It was sure sweet to beat OSU (missed field goal). Even though it hurts a little that we knocked them out of the national championship and then we failed to show up against Rutgers in our Bowl game. I believe we are better than our record. But not that much….

  79. LogicalConsideration says: Jan 3, 2012 3:54 PM

    @clone and @drexelvol, go back and read my comment from 1:46PM (ET). Talking “luck” of a few plays is a distraction, no matter who you think deserves to be in the title game. Kercheval’s whole premise…oh never mind, I cover it in the earlier comment.

  80. cometkazie says: Jan 3, 2012 3:54 PM

    metallicatt316 says:
    Jan 3, 2012 3:08 PM
    OSU actually has done pretty good over the last couple of years.

    Ironically it was the decision to hire Les Miles that helped the turn around at OSU. His signature wins at OSU helped him get the LSU job.

    I don’t think Miles was near the top of the LSU list. IIRC, LSU couldn’t get close to anyone they “really” wanted and it went to Les, which was good for LSU.

    Some of the hard core keep calling for him to be fired, but Les keeps on winning. Must be the grass. No grass at the SuperDome, but he’s won a BCS title there once already.

    OkS has a good program now and I don’t see them as a flash in the pan.

  81. clonefan says: Jan 3, 2012 4:03 PM


    Keep smiling… I think we actually pretty much agree… I just don’t like the situation. I didn’t say it was wrong. Or at least I hope I didn’t. And I will state just to be clear… LSU and Bama may very well be the best two teams in the nation… I don’t know. That is what the computers and votes showed. I am looking forward to the game…. Nice discussing things with you…

  82. reggiemcveggie says: Jan 3, 2012 4:06 PM

    cometkazie says: Jan 3, 2012 3:54 PM

    OkS has a good program now and I don’t see them as a flash in the pan.

    Have you been to Stillwater?

  83. raiderredleg says: Jan 3, 2012 4:28 PM

    reggiemcveggie says:
    Jan 3, 2012 4:06 PM
    cometkazie says: Jan 3, 2012 3:54 PM

    OkS has a good program now and I don’t see them as a flash in the pan.

    Have you been to Stillwater?

    Have you?

    They have poured 100 MILLION into the university…The althletic facilities and football stadium now rival the other top programs in the country.

    The town doesn’t make the program…The University and those who support it do!

    It is was a simple matter of “towns” then why doesn’t the CA and FL based schools have all the talent leaving such “urban giants” like Alabama/Oklahoma without any hope of building great programs?

  84. reggiemcveggie says: Jan 3, 2012 4:31 PM

    raiderredleg: Yeah, I’ve been to stillwater. And Norman. Norman is about ten minutes from OKC which has a nice downtown area and is just that much closer to Dallas. Stillwater is a hole. And like the saying goes, you can put lipstick on a pig, it’s still a pig. But you’d know; you’re from Lubbock right?

  85. raiderredleg says: Jan 3, 2012 4:44 PM

    @ reggiemcveggie says:

    raiderredleg: Yeah, I’ve been to stillwater. And Norman. Norman is about ten minutes from OKC which has a nice downtown area and is just that much closer to Dallas. Stillwater is a hole. And like the saying goes, you can put lipstick on a pig, it’s still a pig. But you’d know; you’re from Lubbock right?
    Nope never been to Lubbock…Nice try though and appreciate the geography lesson I obviously didn’t need about Oklahoma.

    Since OSU is flying high right now as a program with a ton of money coming in with a great University Leadership/Athletic Department, I guess it isn’t a “hole” in everyone’s opinion.

    But don’t worry I will give YOUR opinion as a faceless poster named “reggiemcveggie” ALL the attention it deserves!

  86. cometkazie says: Jan 3, 2012 4:47 PM

    reggiemcveggie says:
    Jan 3, 2012 4:06 PM
    cometkazie says: Jan 3, 2012 3:54 PM

    OkS has a good program now and I don’t see them as a flash in the pan.

    Have you been to Stillwater?

    How does it compare with Starkville?

    I spent three lovely months at Ft. Sill way back when. I liked it so much I haven’t been back.

  87. burntorangehorn says: Jan 3, 2012 5:16 PM

    hrudey says:Jan 3, 2012 11:46 AM

    burntorange: Yeah, Alabama “lost” its shot. But then in the aftermath of that game, Oklahoma State, Stanford, Boise State, Oklahoma, Oregon, Arkansas, Clemson, Virginia Tech, Houston, Penn State, Southern Miss and Cincinnati went out and lost their shot. Yes, every team with 0 or 1 losses after the LSU-Alabama game went out and lost again, other than LSU and Alabama.
    None of those teams lost to LSU. Giving Alabama another shot at LSU is double jeopardy, and shouldn’t happen when there are several other teams with legitimate arguments. If it were undefeated LSU, one-loss Alabama, and then a bunch of two- and three-loss AQ teams and one-loss mid-majors, then I would consider a re-match defensible, but this is an absolutely indefensible matchup.

  88. burntorangehorn says: Jan 3, 2012 5:21 PM

    cometkazie, you do realize that Ft. Sill is nowhere near Stillwater, right? In fact, it’s a lot closer to Norman. And saying your basic training experience at Ft. Sill counts as three months in Stillwater would be like saying basic training at Ft. Jackson counts as three months in Charleston, SC.

  89. LogicalConsideration says: Jan 3, 2012 5:29 PM

    You act like the selection of Alabama over Oklahoma State was done by the Selection Committee for the NCAA Basketball Tournament and we are arguing over who the 32nd at-large team should be.

    The formula that the power conference, of which the SEC is only one, devised is what determined the two teams. Sure, you can argue that the BCS should be amended to in FUTURE seasons require: 1. No rematches unless all other teams have worse records than the #2 team and/or 2. You have to win your conference to be considered. BUT THOSE POTENTIAL RULES AREN’T IN EFFECT THIS YEAR. So get over it. Under the objective rules in place this year, the correct teams were selected.

    PS As someone else mentioned above, the SEC pushed for a +1 and that got nixed by the Big10 and then-Pac10. Now you want to complain when the SEC “wins” by playing by the rules that the rest of the power conferences set up? Gimme a break. As was once said of Coach Bryant, “He’ll take his’n and beat your’n and he’ll take your’n and beat his’n.” By the same token, you set up whatever rules you want to for the future and the SEC is STILL going to kick your behind. Just don’t try to change the rules mid-season (or worse, post-regular-season) just because you don’t like the outcome.

  90. kyaustin says: Jan 3, 2012 5:32 PM

    , watching most of the SEC play football is like watching paint dry…sooooo boring. And the fans, jeeez. You huff and puff about your defensive prowess, but then your bowl record thus far is just 4-2 against non SEC opponents. Not exactly a sterling record of achievement.

  91. kansas525 says: Jan 3, 2012 6:38 PM

    One other question related to Alabama’s “great defense”. When your strength of schedule is in the 50’s shouldn’t your defense look good?

  92. txn4sooners says: Jan 3, 2012 10:41 PM

    Whoever said OSU has an awful defense is an idiot. Stanford scored 30 against Oregon, another top-5 team according to more than one poll. They aren’t the top of the SEC caliber but to say they’re awful is ridiculous.

    I would currently rank the top 5 as:

    OK State

  93. txn4sooners says: Jan 3, 2012 10:50 PM

    Oh, and…Stanford scored 56 against USC, ranked #5 in the last AP poll. Awful…just awful 😛

  94. Deb says: Jan 4, 2012 12:54 AM

    Yes, Ben, most of us strongly advocate a playoff and are frustrated that we can’t get one because the Powers That Be are happy with the millions they rake in from the status quo.

    But beating Stanford in a defenseless shoot-out doesn’t suddenly make Oklahoma State title-worthy. Their own coach announced before their last game that Alabama belonged in the title game. Convenient how everyone wants to quote Nick Saban’s eight-year old comment about how teams that don’t win their conference (like none of us has ever changed our mind during an eight-year span). But no one recalls Gundy’s press conference from a month ago.

    Oklahoma State is still the team that dropped a game to an unranked opponent and couldn’t stop Stanford from putting 38 points on the board. Alabama is still the #2 team in the nation by virtue of losing once to #1 by a FG in OT. The only reason to debate this from now until Monday is because you want the page clicks and the soreheads want to whine about the SEC.

    As for those saying the SEC has no offense, I guess you missed how LSU and Bama beat their other opponents by 30, 40, 50 points. It was only against each other that they had trouble scoring–not because they have no offense but because their defenses are even better than their offenses.

    If you don’t want to watch Monday night, don’t. But if you want a playoff, your time–and the time of complaining sportswriters–would be better spent bitching to and about the BCS rather than the SEC or the individual teams in the championship game.

  95. cometkazie says: Jan 4, 2012 8:52 AM

    Deb says:
    Jan 4, 2012 12:54 AM
    Yes, Ben, most of us strongly advocate a playoff and are frustrated that we can’t get one because the Powers That Be are happy with the millions they rake in from the status quo.

    But beating Stanford in a defenseless shoot-out doesn’t suddenly make Oklahoma State title-worthy. Their own coach announced before their last game that Alabama belonged in the title game. Convenient how everyone wants to quote Nick Saban’s eight-year old comment about how teams that don’t win their conference (like none of us has ever changed our mind during an eight-year span). But no one recalls Gundy’s press conference from a month ago.

    (balanced snipped for brevity)

    All very well said, Deb

  96. reggiemcveggie says: Jan 4, 2012 9:52 AM

    For all you OSU (stillwater) and Big 12 (?) homers I haven’t heard one complaint from players or coaches after the game (Fiesta Bowl) saying they should have played in the championship game. In fact, it’s the opposite. They were satisfied with their win vs Stanford. If they (players/coaches) could care less, why are the fans whining so much?

  97. joem424 says: Jan 4, 2012 2:08 PM

    It is very obvious that the SEC has been the best conference overall for the past six seasons. The phony arguments about the SEC not having Offensive power is just hogwash. Oklahoma State lost to a 6-6 Iowa State team, doesn’t matter that it was a short week. I understand they lost those coaches in a tragic accident, but that should have been even more encouragement to win. Any other team would have treated it that way. Oregon lost by two touchdowns to LSU, and Stanford would not last four quarters with the hard hitters of the SEC. However, if you wanted to see that match-up, it’s the given teams problem. You want to be a contender, put an SEC team on your schedule.
    Maybe when the ever so loved USC Trojans are bowl eligible again, they can bring a little bit of credibility back to the PAC 12. Or maybe some of the coaches that recently took jobs in the PAC 12. The Big 12 needs a LOT of work before becoming competitive against the SEC. The closest conference would be the newly formed BIG 10 (NCAA needs to require a rename of the conferences). Despite my utter hatred for the sub-conference names, these teams are ready to take the step to the next level of competing with the SEC. And we will see the first game of the year in Dallas, when Alabama will face Michigan. You cannot make a viable case for any other match up. Alabama vs. LSU is the game with the two best schools and from a conference that hasn’t lost a BCS Title for the past 6 seasons…. Too bad other conferences, the SEC is king. Roll Tide!!!!

  98. cobweb1975 says: Jan 4, 2012 10:18 PM

    Ok St got beat by an un-ranked team! Alabama has only been beaten by the #1 ranked team. Hate to see a rematch, but they both deserve to be there.

  99. jason1214 says: Jan 5, 2012 10:22 PM

    I’ve seriously had it with you whiny Okie State fans.
    1) You lost to IOWA ST
    2) Bama shouldn’t be penalized for playing in the same division as LSU, nor losing a 3 point OT conference game to the #1 team in the Country.
    3) Okie State had the worst loss of all the 1-loss teams (is this SINKING in yet)
    4)I think we can all agree a playoff is in order regardless of what happened in 2o11, and Deb is 100% correct as usual, the SEC did push for a “plus one” playoff only to have the then Pac 10 and Big 10 whine.
    5) Stop posting some comment Nick Saban made 8 years ago that HAS nothing to do with the BCS formula nor is a rule to compete for BCS National Championship. Its IRRELEVANT
    6) Kansas525, you are a fruit cake, but the truth hurts don’t it? The SEC Conference as a whole plays defense, and just because they don’t play “Basketball on grass” doesn’t mean their offenses are “weak”.
    6) Like it or not the BCS got it right in 2011, absent a playoff.

    RTR! Keep up the great posts Deb & SouthernPatriots

  100. tidebarrister says: Jan 6, 2012 4:51 AM


    If you would actually take the time to do some research, as opposed to merely expressing an uninformed opinion, you might actually make a valid point.

    To date, Alabama has played 5 ranked opponents and with the game against LSU on Jan. 9th, Alabama will have played 6 ranked opponents.

    I included #12 Florida and #23 Penn State in that tally, because that was their respective rankings at the time that Alabama played them.

    Both teams were good teams and nationally ranked when Alabama played and beat them. It’s not Alabama’s fault that both teams later sucked and turned out to be bad teams. Alabama played Florida when Florida was 4-0 and ranked #12. Same for Penn State. That’s why they were both included.

    You stated that you were not making any judgments, but then you stated you “were never impressed with Penn State.” So that’s not a judgment? BS, of course it’s a judgment. Everyone on this blog has made a judgment, so stop pretending that you’re any different.

    With regard to the # of ranked teams that OSU played, I stand corrected, as you correctly stated that I omitted #12 Baylor from my list. So now it’s OSU 6 ranked teams and Alabama 6 ranked teams as of Monday, Jan. 9th.

    Lastly, over the past several years, each time an SEC team has faced a “high powered” Big 12 or PAC 12 team in a BCS Championship game, the SEC team has prevailed and it has done so with DEFENSE; something the Big 12 seems to know very little about.

    Again, Florida shut down OU’s supposedly unstoppable offense in the 2008 BCS Championship game. OU was averaging 54 points per game that season, but was held to 14 points by Florida’s outstanding defense.

    In the 2009, Alabama defeated Texas, 37-21. In doing so, Alabama’s defense knocked out Colt McCoy and held Texas’s offense well below its season scoring average. Once again, the defense prevailed.

    And most recently, in Auburn’s win against Oregon (both defenses played well), Auburn’s defense held Oregon t0 19 points, which was almost 30 points below Oregon’s season average. Again, the defense prevailed over the offense.

    By my count that’s three wins for dominating defenses and three losses for supposedly unstoppable offenses. Those are the facts, not hype.

    Maybe when the Big 12 coaches (other than Mac Brown) figure out that defense wins championships, they’ll start to get some respect and actually win a BCS Championship.

    Otherwise teams like OSU, Baylor, K-State and even OU, will continue to get “dissed”‘ and deservedly so!

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