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Manchin: Saban lobbied for WVU invite to SEC

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While all of the focus these days is on when West Virginia will join the Big 12, if you remember back to late last summer the first question was whether the Mountaineers would be headed from the Big East to the SEC.

In September it was reported at various points that West Virginia was angling for SEC membership, but that membership was reportedly rejected by the conference.  Instead, WVU ultimately received and accepted an invitation to join the Big 12.

The SEC “rejection”, though, wasn’t for lack of effort on the part of one very high-profile native son.

In an interview with the Charleston Daily Mail discussing his state’s flagship school’s move to another conference, Sen. Joe Manchin revealed that none other than Alabama head coach and Fairmont, WV, native Nick Saban was helping with the push to get the Mountaineers into the SEC.

“I thought we could have been in the SEC,” Manchin said. “I talked to my dear friend Nick Saban about that, and, like me, he said, ‘I would like West Virginia in the SEC,’ and we were working toward that.”

Alas, Saban’s recruiting efforts weren’t enough — maybe he talked too much about the NFL and not enough about academics? — as Manchin said the invitation instead went to a second Big 12 school.

“They chose Missouri instead, and then you never heard a thing else about it,” Manchin said.

Manchin’s relationship with Saban dates back to the days that the three-time BcS champion coach was an assistant under Frank Cignetti Sr. at WVU in the late-70s.  Even the power of persuasion Saban possesses, however, wasn’t enough to get his home-state school into the most powerful football conference in the country.

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51 Responses to “Manchin: Saban lobbied for WVU invite to SEC”
  1. deadeye says: Feb 10, 2012 8:34 PM

    I’m sure it’s considered “poor form” to discuss why a conference wouldn’t accept (or reject) a particular university from membership. But I sure would like to hear from SEC folks what the problem was with WVU.

  2. rolltide510 says: Feb 10, 2012 8:49 PM

    deadeye –

    Rednecks and Hillbillies are mortal enemies. It just wouldn’t have worked.

  3. thefiesty1 says: Feb 10, 2012 8:55 PM

    Too bad, the Big 12got ‘em sooner than later. Maybe.

  4. Deb says: Feb 10, 2012 9:28 PM

    @deadeye …

    It’s college football, so there’s only one motivator: MONEY. The SEC wanted to expand its television markets and reap the revenues that go along with expansion. The population of West Virginia is less than 2 million. WVU potentially could have brought in some of the Pennsylvania market, but most of PA’s football allegiance is split between Pitt and Penn State. Missouri brings in most of that state–with a population of 6 million–including the major television market of St. Louis, as well as some of the Kansas City market that’s not aligned with Kansas or K State.

    Going west into Missouri and Texas opened more doors and was simply more profitable than taking on a small nearby school.

  5. dmcgrann says: Feb 10, 2012 9:55 PM

    Now, my wife, her three sisters, and my mother-in-law are Fairmont born, just like Saban and Manchin. So. I’ve got to be careful about what I say.

    Screw it. Joe Manchin is an untrustworthy idiot, just like his uncle, A. James (“how dare does the UVA band insult us this way) Manchin.

  6. mrslay1 says: Feb 10, 2012 11:06 PM

    Well I think this time deb nailed it. The SEC has all the top teir teams in the country it needs. Now it’s about opening markets both for TV revenue as well as for a recruiting base. My guess DGB would have gone to Arkansas instead of mizzory if they had not been part of the SEC. A&M opens up Houston and surrounding areas for the SEC as well. Both were extreamly good moves!

  7. woebegong says: Feb 11, 2012 12:41 AM

    If the SEC was going to expand, they were looking for as big a TV market share as they could get. WVU, although a good football school, couldn’t bring in the market share of a big TV area, like Missouri and Texas A&M could. It was just about money, what it is all said and done.

  8. dcroz says: Feb 11, 2012 7:55 AM

    I also think that all of the academics talk had something to do with it, too. Missouri, like TA&M, is an AAU member, something that WVU is not, and Florida and Vandy are the only two SEC schools that are also members. The thinking may have been that Mizzou could help in getting more SEC members in, since like all exclusive clubs who you know is just as important as any qualifications you may have for getting in. As I have maintained before, this was ultimately about athletics and not academics, but the league may have wanted to cover its bases there, as well.

  9. burntorangehorn says: Feb 11, 2012 9:16 AM

    mrslay1 says:
    Feb 10, 2012 11:06 PM
    Well I think this time deb nailed it. The SEC has all the top teir teams in the country it needs. Now it’s about opening markets both for TV revenue as well as for a recruiting base. My guess DGB would have gone to Arkansas instead of mizzory if they had not been part of the SEC. A&M opens up Houston and surrounding areas for the SEC as well. Both were extreamly good moves!
    =============================
    And your guess about DGB is based on…absolutely nothing at all.

    As to the topic at hand: WV doesn’t have a great media base, although it’s patently untrue that it doesn’t bring the Pittsburgh market (24th-largest in USA) when it comes to TV. WVU in the SEC would make it on TV in Pittsburgh any day of the week, but would be featured on Saturdays. While Pittsburgh-area residents are also fans of Pitt and PSU, the same could be said for aggie fans in Houston and San Antonio (second-fiddle in size to UT fans) and even more so Dallas (third behind UT and OU). Just because they’re not the most popular team doesn’t mean they’re not still very highly watched and guaranteed to bring market.

    As it is, I thought WVU was a decent addition for the Big 12, but would’ve been a much more natural cultural fit for the SEC. Budget-wise, their athletic department is actually pretty strong; their $58M budget in 2011 would’ve ranked better than Missouri ($53.2M), Mississippi ($47.6M), MSU ($40.1M), and Vandy (reportedly approximately $30M) among the 14 schools in the SEC 2012, and if they’d been in the SEC and receiving the same media contract money, would’ve been higher than Arkansas ($63.3M) and fairly close to aggie ($69M in Big 12). That’s also without taking significant money from student fees, as Tennessee, Florida, Georgia, and some other SEC schools do. So their athletic budget wouldn’t necessarily have been a negative factor.

    Source for budgets:
    http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2011/08/22/In-Depth/Budgets.aspx

    But aggie brings what will now be the first (Dallas-Ft. Worth) and third (Houston, behind Atlanta) media markets in the SEC states’ footprints (also adding Charlotte, justifiably). Missouri brings what will be the 7th (StL) and 11th (KC). WVU would’ve brought the 9th (Pitt/WV).

    I contend it would’ve made sense for the SEC to have added WVU, not necessarily instead of Mizzou or aggie, but in addition to them and one other school, forming the 16-team conference. I think Louisville is a stronger add than WVU, but if the rumor that the SEC won’t add more members from existing SEC states, they won’t happen. I do hope the Big 12 jumps on UL soon, because they’re an extremely profitable athletics department with good media footprint and sports culture. For perspective, consider that their basketball program ranks 21st in the nation for any sport, making more money than some SEC football programs, and their football profitability is better than some as well. Their athletic budget is equal to Kansas’, and greater than Arkie, Iowa State, the Mississippi schools, Missouri, Okie St., Texas Tech, Kansas St., and given the boost of a major conference’s media contract, would surpass aggie’s as well. There’s not much to not like about UL, other than their presence in the state of Kentucky and the “gentlemen’s agreement.”

    So long story short, WVU would’ve made sense for the SEC, like Saban said, but I think the argument is they should’ve been added to Mizzou/aggie, not replacing one of them. I’m okay that the Big 12 got them instead.

  10. mrslay1 says: Feb 11, 2012 9:51 AM

    The last two teams in the upcoming super conference will be schools with much better programs than WCU or Louisville. It is not just about academics and certainly not basketball. We have schools with plenty of both. It will be about the regional coverage for recruiting and TV coverage. The SEC commissioner has done a outstanding job of doing this and will make the right choices when the time comes.

  11. burntorangehorn says: Feb 11, 2012 10:49 AM

    mrslay1 says:
    Feb 11, 2012 9:51 AM
    The last two teams in the upcoming super conference will be schools with much better programs than WCU or Louisville. It is not just about academics and certainly not basketball. We have schools with plenty of both. It will be about the regional coverage for recruiting and TV coverage. The SEC commissioner has done a outstanding job of doing this and will make the right choices when the time comes.
    ===============================
    Um, first of all, we all know it’s not about academics with the SEC. With the Big Ten, Pac 12, ACC, and perhaps even the Big 12 to a tiny extent, maybe a little (witness the Pac 12’s ultimatum to only take OU and OSU if UT were there as well), but not the SEC. But I was arguing about athletic budget and profitability, not basketball in a vacuum. There’s a difference you should be able to see, but maybe you missed it. By the way, yes there are schools with plenty of both (academics and basketball) in the SEC, but not enough to make it a reason to think a conference could do far better.

    But if you want to name schools “with much better programs than WCU or Louisville” (and I assume you mean WVU), then name them. Look at the landscape, and tell me whom the SEC will get. I think VT would be a decent fit, but they don’t bring much of a market, their athletics budget is dwarfed by even WVU and UL, and there’s really just nothing but their football team’s decent success (four ACC titles in the past decade) that would be superior to WVU or UL.

    We can probably safely rule out any available mid-majors, as none has the budget, program, fanbase, and market the SEC would want. The only independents that would interest the SEC would be Notre Dame and possibly BYU, but ND wouldn’t join the SEC, although BYU could be a strange but possible candidate.

    Oklahoma and Oklahoma State would be a possibility, but OU school leadership has expressed disinterest in the SEC, and it’s questionable whether they could leave without OSU or would leave without Texas anyway. While money does talk, you can bet OSU and T. Boone Pickens aren’t soon going to forget the BCS debacle this past December. If anything the Oklahoma schools would want to join the Pac 12, not the SEC. Furthermore, those two schools would really only add the OKC and Tulsa markets, because the SEC will already be in the DFW market due to aggie. So those two and the SEC seem an unlikely match.

    But really, who else would be a candidate, and which of them would be superior to UL and WVU? mrslay1, I really think you just aren’t aware of the actual economic value of UL and WVU. And if we’re talking fanbase, they’re better than you think. Again, it’s not about basketball, but their *women’s* basketball team outdraws all but seven of the 24 *men’s* teams in the SEC and ACC. But for overall athletic profitability, here’s a money quote for you:

    “For the 2009-2010 school year, Louisville’s athletic department turned a profit of over $2 million. Having recently researched profits in the SEC and Big Ten, I can tell you that is more than Auburn, Mississippi State, Ole Miss, South Carolina, Northwestern, Minnesota or Illinois.”

    Did you read that? They made more money than for SEC athletics programs, among others. Combine that with the market they’d bring, and I have to ask, are you sure UL isn’t viable economically attractive enough for the SEC?

  12. burntorangehorn says: Feb 11, 2012 11:02 AM

    Link for the UL quote:
    http://businessofcollegesports.com/2011/02/13/louisville-athletics-program-is-a-winner-financially/

    That’s actually a really enlightening article about UL’s athletics program, and not from a local or UL-centric source. In fact, the author is a graduate of Florida’s law school and practicing attorney in Atlanta, has written for Forbes, founded that site Business of College Sports, and is now ESPN’s Sports Business lead writer.

  13. mrslay1 says: Feb 11, 2012 11:21 AM

    You must have missed the point that the question is about expantion. Charter members of the conference such as the 2 Mississippi schools, Auburn,Vandy and such are not in question here. They belong! Any new teams will be very lucky to be here and though I appreciate your lobbying for Louisville, it is not a for gone conclusion that they would be the best fit for “OUR” expantion. That will be decided by minds much greater than yours or mine.

  14. bamaqt says: Feb 11, 2012 11:59 AM

    Burntorangehorn,

    Absolutely! WVU would have brought the SEC to the Western PA market. Being from western PA , I could see this as nothing but a plus! WVU. Still below the Mason-Dixon Line but would have drawn a northern audience.

    Missouri and Texas A&M. Brings the Much of the same audience.

  15. deadeye says: Feb 11, 2012 1:36 PM

    The SEC will most likely look to the states of Virginia and North Carolina for the next round of expansion. I believe that if Oklahoma showed interest, OU would be the first choice. But the odds of that seem slim. Thus the SEC will look to shore up what is a glaring hole in their national footprint. VA and NC are southern schools without any representation in the SEC, and both have large populations. While Missouri has 6 million people, VA has 8 million and NC has 9.5 million.

    I think it will be Virginia Tech and NC State.

  16. Deb says: Feb 11, 2012 2:16 PM

    burntorangehorn, you can stop being a prick. Conference decisions don’t need to be about academics. I didn’t have a clue about Missouri’s athletic conference affiliation when choosing where to attend college–nor did I care.

    However, I did know Missouri was the oldest School of Journalism in the world and then the top-ranking undergraduate j-school in the U.S. I knew my instructors would be professional journalists and Pulitzer winners, and that I’d be learning my craft working for a city newspaper, not a campus paper. I knew I’d have the opportunity to intern media offices based in the state capitol building, interview government leaders daily, and meet recruiters from the best media organizations in the country.

    I didn’t go to college to watch football. And I don’t go to football games to be academically uplifted.

  17. guinsrule says: Feb 11, 2012 3:26 PM

    Actually when Saban heard that the SEC was adding two schools, he suggested they sign six-some habits are hard to break.

  18. deadmanwalking47 says: Feb 11, 2012 3:34 PM

    why would’nt any team in the country want to join the most dominant football conference of the 21st century? SEC will own the title next year when LSU wins it all! ROLL TIDE!!!!!!!!
    ROLL SEC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  19. thegamecocker says: Feb 11, 2012 4:02 PM

    @Deb

    All your posts here are spot on! However, some students do prefer a high-profile school for academics and athletics. The SEC schools offer both of those criteria. And so do many other schools, Missouri and T A&M certainly included. I LOVE when you cite Mizzou having the FINEST School of Journalism in the country! To me, that is more impressive than winning a NC in any sport. I’m a graduate of THE University of South Carolina. We have some OUTSTANDING and moving up the charts schools such as Business, Engineering, and History. We also have the #1 School of International Studies! Yes, better than the Thunderbird School in Arizona. And yes we have won the past two NCAA National Championships in Baseball and I am proud of that also! But when interviewing prospective candidates, I am more interested in their ability to LEARN. You have a college degree, than I’m interested in you. Academics are MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN ATHLETICS IMO.

  20. guinsrule says: Feb 11, 2012 4:53 PM

    The SEC should have taken Pitt-good academics, easy conference win, decent tv market- and imagine how pissed the Big 10 would have been if the SEC would have put a big recuiting footprint right between Penn State and Ohio State.

  21. Deb says: Feb 11, 2012 5:10 PM

    @thegamecocker …

    I didn’t know South Carolina had won the last two baseball championships! That’s great!!

    It just blows my mind when these people make juvenile comments about the SEC and academics because they’re jealous over football titles. Really? Are you 12? It’s like the Giants winning the Super Bowl, but the Pats coming back and sticking their tongues out (and their noses up) because Harvard has a higher academic ranking than NYU. Oh … well then … :roll:

  22. mrslay1 says: Feb 11, 2012 10:37 PM

    Mizzory was to far north as it is and why I and many didn’t want them anyway. Already their yankee liberal way of thinking has shown itself TO much. Their typicle thinking they are somehow better which shows how ignorant they are. Pitt and the rest of the yankee’s are not welcome here by most. Joining the SEC is about football at this time in history and the fact that we not only own the BCS championships, but most of the money. Mizzory’s president stated plainly that they can’t meet their budget, and by joining the SEC will maybe help them pay their bills. I have to wonder where all that academic superiority is with the inablilty to operate within a budget. We use the simple terms here in the south… we call that DUMBASS!!!!

  23. normtide says: Feb 12, 2012 9:54 AM

    Burnt, I usually agree with some of your posts, but your wrong on this issue. First, MIZ is a much better fit for the SEC than WVU. WVU does not fit the SEC culture, it is not a southern state. MIZ is a border state, St. Louis has strong southern roots (I admit KC is as mid-west as it gets). MIZ is light years ahead of WVU in recruits produced, media markets, and academics. Also, in case you have not noticed, the PITT market is really B1G territory, and B1G fans are not fond of the SEC.

    I am not sure why or how you can question the SEC decision making. Mighty Texas, the biggest and richest, has 1 BCS title, the state of Alabama, with a MUCH smaller population, have won 3 in a row. If you combined Alabama and Louisiana, Texas would still dwarf them in population, money, and resources. Yet, between the two, there are 5 BCS Crystal Footballs. Again, Texas has one. Texas can not even outshine OK to their North (another state and school that Texas is way larger then). In short, it seems evident that the SEC decision makers are spot on, while the boys at Texas can not keep from tripping over their own feet.

  24. thegamecocker says: Feb 12, 2012 11:09 AM

    @normtide

    Agree with everything except I think you should have qualified the following statement: “the state of Alabama, with a MUCH smaller population, have won 3 in a row.” I would have finished by stating “albeit the second of the three was “won” while Auburn was using a LIAR, THIEF, CHEAT, & INELIGIBLE PLAYER NAMED SCAM NEWTON.”

    Cannot disagree with anything else stated because they are FACTS! The Tide Win With Pride and Honor! And the Gamecock Nation respects that.

  25. Deb says: Feb 12, 2012 4:08 PM

    @thegamecocker …

    I like you!!! :D

  26. thegamecocker says: Feb 12, 2012 7:01 PM

    @Deb
    @DEB:
    Well….aw shucks…..ughhh…I’m kinda ….I’m stuttering….I’m kinda sweet on you too
    Ms. Deb!!! You know alot about alot! I know a smart woman when I meet her and YOU ARE SMART!!! 😍😍😍😍But I digress…

    @deadeye
    Sorry but I just don’t see any of the ACC schools breaking away from the pack. Strong academeics, strong leadership, very good football when Miami straightens out, the BEST basketball, everybody making money! Why would NC State or Va Tech want to leave? But ya know what would help the SEC and generate incremental revenue and profit? Don’t laugh….R U ready?? RUTGERS UNIVERSITY AND UCONN! NYC MARKET! Great academics (both AAU schools) and large STATE UNIVERSITIES. WOW!

  27. mrslay1 says: Feb 12, 2012 9:03 PM

    You know I can’t agree that any ACC school would fit in the SEC. Except maybe Florida state, but we really don’t need them. The SEC is THE conference at this time in history! And these so called “OUR ACADEMICS ARE SUPERIOR” schools are worth less than their dirty underware! If and when we pick up 2 more teams, THEY will be the lucky ones and anyone offered will jump on it faster than Payton Manning running to pick up another endorsment:-)

  28. Deb says: Feb 13, 2012 1:15 PM

    @thegamecocker …

    Thank you!!!!! :D

  29. thegamecocker says: Feb 13, 2012 1:34 PM

    @Ms Deb

    Will you be my Valentine on this blog?

  30. Deb says: Feb 13, 2012 10:29 PM

    @thegamecocker …

    Well … I will … but I’m already married to frank booth, engaged to brownsfrown, and promised to latrobe21. Does that matter? :)

  31. sssjim7 says: Feb 14, 2012 6:59 AM

    I still think the ACC should snatch up Louisville and UConn… I think both schools are a great match (especially the basketball part)… and their football programs can grow with the rest of the ACC…

    Just my .02
    Jim

  32. thegamecocker says: Feb 14, 2012 8:33 AM

    @Deb

    I stopped reading after you said “I will”! Look Deb, I wouldn’t get involved with any of these other characters on this blog……well maybe Woebegone, because he’s a hero in my book. You and I actually appreciate the “Scholar” word in “Scholar/Athlete” while these other gentlemen don’t seem to connect the two. It’s win at all costs and I’m not like that. Winning with honor is important to me.

    In real life I’m married 37 years (5 different women but 37 years…..just kidding) to one special woman. Three adult children, nobody married but everyone out of the house. A Carolina grad semi-retired. Anyway, you have yourself a GREAT Valentine’s Day and by virtue of this correspondence, you have now VIRTUALLY rec’d ONE DOZEN ROSES to MS. DEB!!!

  33. thegamecocker says: Feb 14, 2012 8:41 AM

    @Jim

    Jim, RU has a solid football program and an improving basketball team with a fine coach. RU is a member of the prestigious AAU. It brings the NYC market with it. For your information, RU games generate a higher share of market than ANY OTHER school in the Metropolitan area including Syracuse. I like adding UCONN as that brings in the New England market, Boston in particular. Louisville does not have the academic reputation the other ACC schools have nor will it bring in a TV market size like RU. Unfortunately Louisville would fall below even Clemson, the worst academic school in the ACC. I don’t think the ACC wants to do that. RU and UCONN better fit IMO.

  34. mrslay1 says: Feb 14, 2012 8:56 AM

    Just Got to say, we don’t need any more yankees in the SEC. Mizzory is already running their mouth that THEY think their better than everyone else. They can’t run their school in budget, but think their smarter than the other SEC schools. uconn and ru would be the same way.

  35. Deb says: Feb 14, 2012 12:34 PM

    @thegamecocker ….

    Why, thank you, sir, for my virtual roses!!! And don’t worry. “Deb” won’t be trading addresses and phone numbers with any of the colorful characters here. It’s all innocent blog-posting fun. But I have a real life off the blog as well. :)

  36. thegamecocker says: Feb 14, 2012 1:15 PM

    @mrslay1

    Now c’mon Slay….by definition I’m a “yankee” b/c I live in NJ. But I’m a Carolina grad. I’m Gamecock born and Gamecock bred and when I die, I’ll be Gamecock dead. That’s just how I roll. You and I agree on much of the subject matter on these blogs. Don’t dislike me b/c of where I’m from. I know too many folks up here who have misconceptions of the South. They’re wrong and I let him have it because most of them have never lived there. Don’t know how nice the people are; don’t appreciate the beautiful landscape because they never give themselves a chance. All I’m asking is that folks be open minded, that’s all.

  37. mrslay1 says: Feb 14, 2012 5:08 PM

    Hey man, I understand your spot, but if you notice, you made my point for me. The people in the north (not all but most) are obnoxious as hell and have no concept of life in the south. I have lived in the north (just a short time) and could not stand the arrogance they display in their ignorance. Being born and raised in the south and living many different places I have to say I thought Texans were bad till I lived in Louisville and traveled a lot to Boston. I have to wonder what they think is so special. They certainly are not!

  38. thegamecocker says: Feb 14, 2012 5:45 PM

    @mrslay1

    Just consider me one of the few who LOVE THE SOUTH and will always stand up for it. I plan on retiring to Charleston when I’m through up here. The Wife likes Charleston and we can reside in two locations. No big deal.

  39. sssjim7 says: Feb 14, 2012 9:39 PM

    @ thegamecocker:

    No, you are a *damn yankee*… a yankee is just a northerner… but a *damn yankee* is a northerner that moves south and stays there! :)

    I was born in Charleston, and have lived all over the world… may even go back to SC someday… there are good people and bad people everywhere… just like drivers…

    Anyway, welcome… and go Tigers! :)
    ~Jim

  40. thegamecocker says: Feb 15, 2012 8:37 AM

    @sssjim7

    Thanks Jim! I’m honored to be a “DAMM YANKEE”!
    Which kind of Tiger are you: a Clemson Tiger or Auburn TIger? 😳

  41. sssjim7 says: Feb 15, 2012 12:53 PM

    @thegamecocker

    I am from a rather dysfunctional family… my little sister graduated from Carolina and I graduated from Clemson (twice)… and my dad graduated from Air War College at Auburn… so I root for all 3 schools… :)
    And my mother graduated from Weber State University (Big Sky), so I root for them, too… and I have a lot of relatives in Ohio and Connecticut so I am a big Browns/Buckeye/Husky fan, too… and of course, the Carolina Panthers…

    And now I live in Wyoming so I root for the Cowboys, too… maybe they can squeeze their way into the NCAA basketball tournament this year?

    ~Jim

  42. burntorangehorn says: Feb 16, 2012 12:49 AM

    Deb says:
    Feb 11, 2012 2:16 PM
    burntorangehorn, you can stop being a prick. Conference decisions don’t need to be about academics. I didn’t have a clue about Missouri’s athletic conference affiliation when choosing where to attend college–nor did I care.

    However, I did know Missouri was the oldest School of Journalism in the world and then the top-ranking undergraduate j-school in the U.S. I knew my instructors would be professional journalists and Pulitzer winners, and that I’d be learning my craft working for a city newspaper, not a campus paper. I knew I’d have the opportunity to intern media offices based in the state capitol building, interview government leaders daily, and meet recruiters from the best media organizations in the country.

    I didn’t go to college to watch football. And I don’t go to football games to be academically uplifted.
    ===============================
    Can you get over it, Deb? Academics were mentioned only in passing, and the thrust of that mention was that the SEC does not seem to place an emphasis on academics when considering conference expansion. The Pac 12 and Big Ten, on the other hand, would. Obviously the Big 12 wasn’t really in any position to be picky, so TCU and WVU made the cut. Truth is, though, a student can get a terrific education at any of these schools. Some are more rigorous than others, but these bigger institutions all have more than good enough academics that a motivated student can come out with just as good an education as someone at a much more prestigious institution.

  43. burntorangehorn says: Feb 16, 2012 1:06 AM

    mrslay1 says:
    Feb 11, 2012 10:37 PM
    Mizzory was to far north as it is and why I and many didn’t want them anyway. Already their yankee liberal way of thinking has shown itself TO much. Their typicle thinking they are somehow better which shows how ignorant they are. Pitt and the rest of the yankee’s are not welcome here by most. Joining the SEC is about football at this time in history and the fact that we not only own the BCS championships, but most of the money. Mizzory’s president stated plainly that they can’t meet their budget, and by joining the SEC will maybe help them pay their bills. I have to wonder where all that academic superiority is with the inablilty to operate within a budget. We use the simple terms here in the south… we call that DUMBASS!!!!
    ==================================
    That’s a riot, since most of the SEC states actually drain much more money from federal funds than they contribute in revenues. If you look at a list of federal money received per tax dollar paid, here is how some SEC states rank:

    #2 Mississippi (2 public schools)
    #4 Louisiana
    #7 Alabama (2 public schools)
    #10 Kentucky
    #14 Arkansas
    #19 Tennessee

    So five of the eleven public SEC schools, including the three that have most recently won BCS championships, are in states among the top seven in terms of federal tax dollars received, courtesy of states like New York, New Jersey, California, Massachussetts, etc. Eight of eleven are in the top 20, and ten of eleven are receiving more money than they provide in revenues, with the lone exception being Florida.

    If you want to complain about what’s dumb, how about your state starts operating within a budget that doesn’t require being leeches on a national scale?

    The top Big 12 school in terms of federal dollars received per tax dollar paid? Missouri…who’ll be in the SEC soon anyway. But good news: by adding aggie, the SEC will literally double the number of schools in states that aren’t leeches!

    http://visualizingeconomics.com/2010/02/17/federal-taxes-paidreceived-for-each-state/

  44. burntorangehorn says: Feb 16, 2012 1:09 AM

    mrslay1 says:
    Feb 11, 2012 11:21 AM
    You must have missed the point that the question is about expantion. Charter members of the conference such as the 2 Mississippi schools, Auburn,Vandy and such are not in question here. They belong! Any new teams will be very lucky to be here and though I appreciate your lobbying for Louisville, it is not a for gone conclusion that they would be the best fit for “OUR” expantion. That will be decided by minds much greater than yours or mine.
    =================================
    What’s your point? I’m not questioning whether the current schools belong. And I specifically did ask you what those schools would be expansion candidates, since you rejected the merits of WVU or UL out of hand. You must have missed the part where I made my entire post about that, and trying to get you to answer the question, since you seem to believe yourself knowledgeable enough to say that such-and-such school isn’t good enough.

  45. burntorangehorn says: Feb 16, 2012 1:11 AM

    normtide says:
    Feb 12, 2012 9:54 AM
    Burnt, I usually agree with some of your posts, but your wrong on this issue. First, MIZ is a much better fit for the SEC than WVU. WVU does not fit the SEC culture, it is not a southern state. MIZ is a border state, St. Louis has strong southern roots (I admit KC is as mid-west as it gets). MIZ is light years ahead of WVU in recruits produced, media markets, and academics. Also, in case you have not noticed, the PITT market is really B1G territory, and B1G fans are not fond of the SEC.

    I am not sure why or how you can question the SEC decision making. Mighty Texas, the biggest and richest, has 1 BCS title, the state of Alabama, with a MUCH smaller population, have won 3 in a row. If you combined Alabama and Louisiana, Texas would still dwarf them in population, money, and resources. Yet, between the two, there are 5 BCS Crystal Footballs. Again, Texas has one. Texas can not even outshine OK to their North (another state and school that Texas is way larger then). In short, it seems evident that the SEC decision makers are spot on, while the boys at Texas can not keep from tripping over their own feet.
    ==============================
    There’s winning, and then there’s winning the right way. I’d rather win the Mack Brown way on rare occasions than win the SEC way any time.

  46. burntorangehorn says: Feb 16, 2012 1:14 AM

    mrslay1 says:
    Feb 14, 2012 5:08 PM
    Hey man, I understand your spot, but if you notice, you made my point for me. The people in the north (not all but most) are obnoxious as hell and have no concept of life in the south. I have lived in the north (just a short time) and could not stand the arrogance they display in their ignorance. Being born and raised in the south and living many different places I have to say I thought Texans were bad till I lived in Louisville and traveled a lot to Boston. I have to wonder what they think is so special. They certainly are not!
    ==============================
    What arrogance do they display? Care to be specific? And this whole “they think they’re better than everyone else” schtick certainly isn’t specific enough, but rather a copout. Give me specifics. I’m a fence-sitter in terms of north/south, having grown up mostly in Kansas, some in Texas and Mizzou, and having also lived in California, Arizona, and now Maryland, but I definitely have not seen more arrongance in the north than in the south.

  47. burntorangehorn says: Feb 16, 2012 1:20 AM

    Sigh…calling northerners yankees is like calling southerners traitors, mrslay.

  48. mrslay1 says: Feb 16, 2012 8:31 AM

    First of all that was a quote from the school president. Second you lie like a dog.

  49. waynefontes says: Feb 16, 2012 8:37 AM

    I miss Charleston.

  50. corvusrex96 says: Feb 16, 2012 8:14 PM

    If a dog in Houston, Texas accidently steps on a TV remote control you would instantly have more viewers than if WV were added to the SEC

  51. burntorangehorn says: Mar 15, 2012 5:36 PM

    What lie did I tell, mrs. lay? Please, enlighten us. And as for the quote from the president, you didn’t provide one; all you did was say what you think the Mizzou president stated, without linking or providing an actual quote. That’s not a quote.

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