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‘Bama, Penn State most profitable athletic departments

CORRECTION Bulk Cash Smuggling AP

Even as some universities look to nickel-and-dime their way through The Great $2K Stipend Debate, a sizable chunk — especially from the Power Six conferences — are pulling in some type of profit from collegiate athletics.

Based on disclosures from the United States Department of Education, the BusinessOfCollegeSports.com website reports that 47 of the 66 athletic departments with a football program in a BcS conference made a net profit for 2010-2011.  There were actually 48 schools listed by the site on the positive side of the financial ledger, with Notre Dame, which is a member of the Big East in other sports besides independent football program, coming in inside the Top Ten among individual institutions.

At this point, it would likely be wise to shine a light on the “disclaimer” the website noted when it comes to taking these numbers as financial gospel:

…the athletics departments do not report either profit or net income.  Rather, they report their revenues and expenses.  For this series, profit/net income was calculated by subtracting the total expenses reported from the total revenues reported. 

As noted above, the data used was obtained from the Department of Education and is from 2010-11.  While this data is not perfect, it is the only data publicly available for both private and public institutions.

In other words, take the numbers with a grain of salt the size of [insert name of favorite big-boned coach here].  So, with that said…

Not so surprisingly, the SEC (91.6) and Big Ten (83.33) were the conferences with the greatest percentage of its membership awash in black ink, followed by the Big 12′s 80 percent.

The lowest percentage among BcS conferences?  The Big East, with only three of the eight football-playing members of the conference in 2010-11 pulling in a profit.

Among individual schools, Alabama ($31.68 million) and Penn State ($31.62 million) had the highest net income.  Interestingly, the Tide was the only SEC school in the Top 10; the Big Ten, on the other hand, had a total of four — the Nittany Lions, Michigan (No. 3, $26.65 million), Ohio State (No. 7, $18.63 million) and Michigan State (No. 10, $13.51 million).

The six-time defending BcS conference, though, is certainly not hurting financially, with eight of its 12 members in the Top 26 in net income and just one athletic department — Ole Miss — that didn’t realize a profit.  Tennessee is on the very low end of the SEC profit spectrum with a meager $14,447; the next lowest total from a member of that conference is South Carolina at $762,726.

Texas (No. 4, $24.32 million), Kansas State (No. 5, $23.39 million), Oregon (No. 8, $16.43 million) and Oklahoma State (No. 9, $14.36 million) round out the Top 10 most profitable athletic departments.  Again, based on the very raw numbers from the Department of Education.

(Tip O’ the Cap: al.com)

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64 Responses to “‘Bama, Penn State most profitable athletic departments”
  1. papabush88 says: Mar 22, 2012 1:28 PM

    It’s about the change to USC next year. I am not proud of it, but the bandwagons are coming out. Snoop Dogg, Will Ferrell, Nick Lachey. They all used to hang around the Trojans when they had Leinart, Bush, and LenDale White. They’ll be back. And it’s sad. I sleep well at night knowing that I stuck with my Trojans through thick (2002-Present) and thin (1990s).

  2. afirst916 says: Mar 22, 2012 1:33 PM

    I’m suprised Orego and SC aren’t higher. I live in Sacramento and I remember, even back when Oregon sucked, knowing all the logos because I couldn’t go a day without seeing, at the very least, a window decal

  3. lucky5934 says: Mar 22, 2012 1:33 PM

    Sounds like Penn State really profited from Sandusky’s Hush Hush pedafile ring? Sad really…

  4. papabush88 says: Mar 22, 2012 1:41 PM

    afirst916: The Oregon football program spends a ton of $ (I’m referring to legally spending, but I guess they also illegally spend too) on the recruiting trail. And really, it is a lot of money that they don’t really have. I think that’s why they are not as profitable. They spend A LOT of $. USC probably will be higher next year. Remember when Snoop Dogg and other celebrities were on the sidelines of every single game in ’04 and ’05? Well, they haven’t been around for a while. Now that USC is a serious national title contender, they will probably be back as well as many other fair weather fans. Went from having one of the loudest stadiums to not even a cotender for that.

  5. papabush88 says: Mar 22, 2012 1:45 PM

    Forgot to attach this article. Oregon isn’t really known for having a large endowment. But they sure spend a great deal of $. Sad thing is how much ND spends and they haven’t been a great team in long time.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/these-20-schools-spend-the-most-money-recruiting-high-school-athletes-2012-2?op=1

  6. 78lion says: Mar 22, 2012 1:45 PM

    Shame no two schools follow the same accounting procedures for allocation of costs. These numbers are less than useless.

  7. superfbfan says: Mar 22, 2012 2:34 PM

    @78lion
    Your right on…those numbers aren’t reliable. Here’s a Forbes link on college football $ seeing how this a football blog.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2011/12/22/college-footballs-most-valuable-teams/

  8. frug says: Mar 22, 2012 2:48 PM

    Keep in mind that schools allocate funding differently, and some even count financial support from the state, school or student fees as “income”. A more accurate list profitable athletic departments (public only) can be found here:

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/2011-06-15-athletic-departments-increase-money_n.htm

  9. bozosforall says: Mar 22, 2012 3:47 PM

    papabush88 says:
    Mar 22, 2012 1:45 PM
    Forgot to attach this article. Oregon isn’t really known for having a large endowment. But they sure spend a great deal of $. Sad thing is how much ND spends and they haven’t been a great team in long time.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/these-20-schools-spend-the-most-money-recruiting-high-school-athletes-2012-2?op=1

    __
    Oregon has Phil Knight’s money backing them, idiot. Much like the University of Spoiled Children has had Ed Doheny’s money to back them since way back in the 1920s.

    Everyone knows that USC originated buying players way back in the early days of college football, so for any USC fan to try and accuse other schools of paying players is beyond hypocrisy.

  10. papabush88 says: Mar 22, 2012 3:57 PM

    bozosforall: I never accused another school, especially Oregon, of paying players. Where did I say that? The illegal payments I was referring to were when Chip Kelly was caught trying to cover up the Willie Lyles fiasco. Using the “Everyone knows” argument is weak. I understand Phil Knight is back them with money and spending it on those cute and colorful uniforms. Like a woman’s wardrobe. Billion different outfits.
    USC didn’t even make the list for sports programs that spend the most money and we have one of the largest endowments than any other school. I was just surprised to see that U$C doesn’t spend as much as POORegon.

  11. thefiesty1 says: Mar 22, 2012 4:06 PM

    DeLoss is not going to be happy coming in fourth.

  12. bozosforall says: Mar 22, 2012 6:36 PM

    USC spends their money under the radar, mamasbush. It’s been that way since the days of Doheny.

  13. papabush88 says: Mar 22, 2012 7:07 PM

    bozosforall: Do you realize how stupid your comment is? It is 100% pure speculation. I can make an outrageous comment like that too. Notre Dame has an army of terrorists and pays them by giving them sex slaves due to their involvement in an underground sex trafficking ring.

    It’s just not true. Trust me on this: the entire nation, including yourself obviously, is jealous of USC. The NCAA made it very clear, in their punishment of USC, that they HATE USC. Therefore, using a word called LOGIC, if USC was involved in anything of the sort, the NCAA would’ve found out. It’s that simple. Furthermore, while I don’t think the solution is for the NCAA to pay players, I think players should be allowed to accept charitable donations. Maybe not sex-cocaine yachts like Paul Dee and his Miami team, but legal stuff. Who care if you help a player out by getting him a place to stay? Or a car? This country was founded by Christians, and Christians believe in doing charitable things for the less fortunate. Wealthier guys like Matt Barkley don’t need the money, but guys like Reggie Bush do.

  14. bozosforall says: Mar 22, 2012 7:46 PM

    No speculation at all. Reggie Bush was not the first, nor will he be the last to take cash from USC. And was documented as early as 1927, when Upton Sinclair published his book, “Oil”, which was loosely based on the life of Edward L. Doheny (and the company he co-founded, Pan American Petroleum & Transport Company, the California assets of which became Pan American Western Petroleum Company). In the book, Sinclair documents exactly how the USC football program was built, using Doheny oil money to play players. Doheny was also implicated in the Teapot Dome scandal, further showing how much of a crooked USC booster he was. USC…University of Slimy Criminals.

  15. showerswithsandusky says: Mar 22, 2012 7:49 PM

    Teaching young boys how to properly wash and the fine art of facilitating a creep must be profitable. Tear down the monument to the “Enabler” now!!

  16. papabush88 says: Mar 22, 2012 7:55 PM

    bozosforall: You still have not proved how Reggie took money from USC. PROVE IT!!!

    And I’ve heard of University of Spoiled Children before, but never have I heard of that very non-hetero thing you just said. Congratulations. You’re stupid and weird.

  17. normtide says: Mar 22, 2012 7:58 PM

    Oregon is in Nike’s pocket. I have to say, the state of Alabama has to have the smallest population in the top ten ( someone will correct me if I am wrong :) ). Sorry for the state pride here, but 3 BCS titles in a row for a state this size has to impress. Add in the money Auburn made, and Alabama is easily the top college football state. No “thank God for Mississippi” needed when it comes to football, lol.

    On a side note, huge props to the small $ programs that compete. They make a school like Baylor, who has been raking in big BCS AQ money for decades with one decent season to show for it, look even more pathetic.

  18. Deb says: Mar 22, 2012 11:08 PM

    @bozosforall …

    A-hem … as you pointed out Oil was loosely based on Doheny’s life. It’s a novel, not a biography. Sinclair was known for being passionately dramatic. USC football was prominent before Edward Doheny came along, so he didn’t build that program. He did donate more than a million dollars to fund a library in memory of his dead son. But Doheny himself passed in the mid-1930s, so it’s unbelievably absurd to be slamming USC for anything that man may or may not have done nearly a century ago.

    Programs aren’t corrupt–people are, whether it’s Reggie Bush or Sandusky. People should stop slamming Penn State and USC over things that have nothing to do with them. It could just as easily be your team next.

  19. Deb says: Mar 22, 2012 11:27 PM

    I meant people should stop slamming the fans of those teams over things beyond the fans’ control.

  20. swu32733 says: Mar 22, 2012 11:31 PM

    I am surprised that Oregon isn’t higher. It is clearly the most commercial enterprise in college football. It is a wholly owned subsidiary of Nike. Too bad they don’t have money for academics there.

  21. papabush88 says: Mar 23, 2012 1:03 AM

    Thanks Deb. Some of these people make outrageous and highly false statements about USC. Still, I don’t care if others view us as Darth Vader, or the bad guys. Darth sold the most lunch boxes anyway. And by the way, bozosforall, Star Wars was not a true story. We aren’t REALLY Darth Vader. Novels are fiction. And the star wars movie, while they looked real, were not.

  22. polegojim says: Mar 23, 2012 9:30 AM

    Amazing how some folks can take ANY discussion and turn it to the negative.

    You don’t burn the house down to get rid of varmints and insects. You purge and refurbish.

    I’m glad PSU and USC are poised to do exactly that… OK… I guess OSU also, but just so we can compete against and beat a better team.

    …also glad that Michigan Football is valued at almost 100Mil… GO BLUE!

  23. bozosforall says: Mar 23, 2012 11:10 AM

    Non-hetero. Sounds like a condition that you are all to familiar with. Congratulations for coming out of the closet.

  24. papabush88 says: Mar 23, 2012 11:23 AM

    Gee, you got me once again bozosforall. I still don’t think you understand the difference between fiction and non fiction. Do you think Harry Potter is real too?

  25. Deb says: Mar 23, 2012 11:29 AM

    JT, maybe you can explain this thumbs thing because they get mighty testy about it when people post about it on the pro side. I just gave papabush a thumbs-up, but when I tried to give one to polegojim, it wouldn’t register and kept disappearing. What’s up with that? I think the things are silly myself because–at least on CFT–people use them for organized vendettas and censorship by harassment. But if you’re going to have them, then they should be operational, or what’s the point?

  26. bozosforall says: Mar 23, 2012 11:29 AM

    Never read the books nor watched the movies…but it appears that you are a huge Potter fan. Congrats on that too.

    And the difference between fiction and non-fiction is much less than you would ever believe. In fact, many fiction writers use the genre to tell more accurate truths under the guise of fiction than non-fiction writers are given license to do by their respective subjects. Upton Sinclair was a master of the fictional “muckraker”. Even L. Frank Baum used “The Wizard of Oz” to criticize many elements of US political and economic culture. Try expanding your mind sometime, mamabush…instead of your waistline, couch potato.

  27. bozosforall says: Mar 23, 2012 11:35 AM

    USC player admitting that he got PAID. There’s your PROOF, mamabush.

    http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/ex-usc-trojans-player-lonnie-white-comes-clean-about-taking-cash-improper-benefits-062211

  28. bozosforall says: Mar 23, 2012 11:36 AM

    Deb says:
    Mar 22, 2012 11:27 PM
    I meant people should stop slamming the fans of those teams over things beyond the fans’ control.

    __
    Fans should also quit bragging about things (like team wins) that are beyond the fans’ control.

    Funny how that goes both ways, eh Deb?

  29. bozosforall says: Mar 23, 2012 11:39 AM

    Deb says:
    Mar 22, 2012 11:08 PM
    @bozosforall …

    A-hem … as you pointed out Oil was loosely based on Doheny’s life. It’s a novel, not a biography. Sinclair was known for being passionately dramatic. USC football was prominent before Edward Doheny came along, so he didn’t build that program. He did donate more than a million dollars to fund a library in memory of his dead son. But Doheny himself passed in the mid-1930s, so it’s unbelievably absurd to be slamming USC for anything that man may or may not have done nearly a century ago.

    Programs aren’t corrupt–people are, whether it’s Reggie Bush or Sandusky. People should stop slamming Penn State and USC over things that have nothing to do with them. It could just as easily be your team next.

    __
    As a journalist, you should know that many authors use fiction to get the truth out there when their fellow non-fiction writers (particularly biographers) are handcuffed by their subject from telling the whole truth. Where there is smoke, there is fire…and the smoke coming from the “Oil” novel is thick indeed.

  30. bozosforall says: Mar 23, 2012 11:47 AM

    papabush88 says:
    Mar 22, 2012 7:55 PM
    bozosforall: You still have not proved how Reggie took money from USC. PROVE IT!!!
    ___

    Documents and on-the-record interviews with sources close to the situation reveal that Bush and his family received financial benefits from agent Mike Ornstein and a business associate.

    Those benefits include:

    $595.20 in round-trip airfare from San Diego to Oakland in November 2005 for Bush’s stepfather, LaMar Griffin, his mother, Denise Griffin and younger brother to attend the USC-California game at Berkeley. The fees were charged to the credit card of Jamie Fritz, an employee of Ornstein.

    Suits for Bush’s stepfather and brother to wear during the Dec. 10, 2005 Heisman ceremony in New York, a makeover for his mother for the event and limousine transportation.

    Weekly payments of at least $1,500 to the Bush family.

    $623.63 for a hotel stay by Bush at the Venetian Resort & Casino in Las Vegas from March 11-13, 2005, charged to Michaels, according to a document signed by Bush.

    $1,574.86 for a stay by Bush at the Manchester Hyatt in San Diego from March 4-6, 2005, paid for by Michaels, according to a hotel document, a hotel employee and a source.

    $13,000 to Bush from New Era to purchase and modify a car.

    $54,000 in rent-free living for a year at Michaels’ $757,500 home in Spring Valley, Calif., according to Michaels and San Diego attorney Brian Watkins.

    $28,000 from Michaels to help Bush’s family settle pre-existing debt, according to Michaels and Watkins.

    Thousands of dollars in spending money to both Bush and his family from the prospective agents, according to multiple sources.

    The card establishes a direct link between Bush’s family and Ornstein’s office while Bush was still at USC.

    NCAA by-law 12.3.1.2 states that an athlete shall be deemed ineligible if he or she accepts benefits from agents or marketing representatives. The rule further states that student-athletes, their family or friends cannot receive benefits or loans from agents. Additionally, NCAA by-law 12.1.2.1.6 states that athletes cannot receive preferential treatment, benefits or services because of the individual’s athletics reputation or skill or pay-back potential as a professional athlete, unless such treatment, benefits or services are specifically permitted under NCAA legislation.

    FOCUS on the part that reads “student-athletes, their family or friends cannot receive benefits or loans from agents.”

    BUSTED!!!!!!!

  31. papabush88 says: Mar 23, 2012 12:20 PM

    bozosforall: I have never denied that Reggie took money from Ornstein. You repeatedly stated that USC paid Reggie. My point was that USC was NOT involved in the Reggie Bush scandal, as reported by the NCAA. However, you still have not provided truth to this. You kept saying that Reggie Bush was paid by USC. Here is your quote: “Reggie Bush was not the first, nor will he be the last to take cash from USC.”
    Please provide documentation/evidence that Reggie took money from USC. I do think that taking money from a USC booster is bad, and becomes an issue in which the university can be involved. However, Michael Ornstein, and ex agent, gave money to Reggie in San Diego, far from the boundaries of the USC campus. Additionally, this is the same Michael Ornstein involved in the illegal selling of Super Bowl tickets, in which he did time for, as well as the same Michael Ornstein involved in the Saints bounties. And my pride for my team’s wins is a positive thing. While, yes, their wins are out of my control, I am not being negative as you are in slamming other teams. My very first comment was how Oregon spends a surprising amount of money on the recruiting trail. It was not negative. I was surprised by the numbers, even with Phil Knight backing them. I am also proud that USC never tried to cover up the Reggie scandal. Why? Because they didn’t know it had happened. Lastly, I think the NCAA should amend some of their rules. Do I think it is the smartest thing to pay the players and put them on a payroll? No. That would get messy. However, receiving gifts shouldn’t be illegal. It’s not like Reggie took steroids and was immediately a better player on the field. Receiving money didn’t give him an edge on the field. Still, what he did was wrong, but really not that big of deal, and shouldn’t have gotten USC in as much trouble as they got.

  32. papabush88 says: Mar 23, 2012 12:30 PM

    And no, I am not a Harry Potter fan. Read the first book and never got interested. My wife loves those books. And I understand what you mean that fiction writers use political and even religious themes about real life in their writing to get a point across. However, basing your argument on a dramaticized novel and passing it off as 100% truth is an epic fail. Not a good foundation for your argument. I don’t know every single detail of what happened between Reggie Bush and Michael Ornstein. None of us do. I only have the facts at hand given to us by the COI. And since you like fictional stories with real themes, here is one for you:
    Say you live in Los Angeles. You have a brother who lives in Los Angeles as well, but not in the same residence. Your brother, unbeknownst to you, drives to San Diego for the weekend and pays for sex. The company at which you work, informs you on Monday morning that because of the actions of your brother, who is related to you, you are fired from your job. You’re pissed, but just when you think you can get another job, your former boss has called everyone in the area, and tells them not to hire you, and you can’t find work for the next two years.
    Sucks doesn’t it? Unfair, isn’t it? You are guilty by association, and yet you did nothing wrong.

  33. lasseter1113 says: Mar 23, 2012 12:42 PM

    Money Money Money Money, MO-ney!!!

  34. Deb says: Mar 23, 2012 12:43 PM

    @bozosforall …

    Good grief, where to begin?

    You’re right–fans share the good and the bad of their teams. That means the wins and the losses. But it’s absurd for someone who so callously and tastelessly calls himself “showerswithsandusky” to keep implying that Penn State is about nothing but one monstrous pedophile. It dishonors the fine educators, students, and athletes who went through that institution before Sandusky came near it and those who were honorably doing their jobs with no knowledge of his behavior while he was there. Likewise those at USC who had no part in illegal payments to players.

    No, it’s not the responsibity of every fan to wear a scarlet “A” because one or a handful of individuals at their university is corrupt. Whether you know it or not, a handful of individuals at every university is corrupt. Your arrogance on that may come back to bite when you least expect it.

    Yes, I’m well familiar with Upton Sinclair, having studied him in journalism school. Most novelists borrow from their own lives to inform their work. And he certainly was a deliberate social commentator. However, he still wrote under the mantle of fiction, so you can’t take incidents from his books and declare them fact. But if you could, it still wouldn’t matter because the man on which Oil was based died in 1935. It’s irrelevant to USC today. The school has been sanctioned for recent misdeeds, and the people involved have left the program. Move on.

    Yes, L. Frank Baum used his fantasy world to make social commentary. So does J.K. Rowling. I’m currently reading the Harry Potter books for the first time and could pen volumes about Rowling’s brilliance as both a writer and social commentator. I read a great deal of nonfiction and my favorite novelist is Steinbeck. I’d rather have a tooth pulled than read fantasy fiction, but this series is extraordinary. These books aren’t glorified romance novels about vampires and werewolves. Rowling’s won all those writing awards for a reason.

  35. bozosforall says: Mar 23, 2012 1:19 PM

    Deb says:
    Mar 23, 2012 12:43 PM
    @bozosforall …

    Good grief, where to begin?

    You’re right–fans share the good and the bad of their teams. That means the wins and the losses. But it’s absurd for someone who so callously and tastelessly calls himself “showerswithsandusky” to keep implying that Penn State is about nothing but one monstrous pedophile. It dishonors the fine educators, students, and athletes who went through that institution before Sandusky came near it and those who were honorably doing their jobs with no knowledge of his behavior while he was there. Likewise those at USC who had no part in illegal payments to players.

    No, it’s not the responsibity of every fan to wear a scarlet “A” because one or a handful of individuals at their university is corrupt. Whether you know it or not, a handful of individuals at every university is corrupt. Your arrogance on that may come back to bite when you least expect it.

    Yes, I’m well familiar with Upton Sinclair, having studied him in journalism school. Most novelists borrow from their own lives to inform their work. And he certainly was a deliberate social commentator. However, he still wrote under the mantle of fiction, so you can’t take incidents from his books and declare them fact. But if you could, it still wouldn’t matter because the man on which Oil was based died in 1935. It’s irrelevant to USC today. The school has been sanctioned for recent misdeeds, and the people involved have left the program. Move on.

    Yes, L. Frank Baum used his fantasy world to make social commentary. So does J.K. Rowling. I’m currently reading the Harry Potter books for the first time and could pen volumes about Rowling’s brilliance as both a writer and social commentator. I read a great deal of nonfiction and my favorite novelist is Steinbeck. I’d rather have a tooth pulled than read fantasy fiction, but this series is extraordinary. These books aren’t glorified romance novels about vampires and werewolves. Rowling’s won all those writing awards for a reason.

    __
    Not worried a bit about “getting bitten”. As for USC, his misdeeds aren’t irrelevant, since they established a culture of paying players that persists to this day. And I never claimed that one should wear the “scarlet letter” (though the “A” would fit you perfectly..lol) but if you are going to brag about the good then you need to prepare to tough out the bad too. Otherwise, keep a low profile as a fan and people won’t bring up the bad to counteract the good that some fans tend to inflate exponentially in order to put down others programs. I agree that Sandusky shouldn’t tarnish the entire Penn State program, but Penn Staters should have learned a bit about humility (as should any fans of programs that tend to spend too much time bragging about their teams and using the team’s accomplishments to put down “lesser” programs).

  36. bozosforall says: Mar 23, 2012 1:23 PM

    papabush88 says:
    Mar 23, 2012 12:30 PM
    And no, I am not a Harry Potter fan. Read the first book and never got interested. My wife loves those books. And I understand what you mean that fiction writers use political and even religious themes about real life in their writing to get a point across. However, basing your argument on a dramaticized novel and passing it off as 100% truth is an epic fail. Not a good foundation for your argument. I don’t know every single detail of what happened between Reggie Bush and Michael Ornstein. None of us do. I only have the facts at hand given to us by the COI. And since you like fictional stories with real themes, here is one for you:
    Say you live in Los Angeles. You have a brother who lives in Los Angeles as well, but not in the same residence. Your brother, unbeknownst to you, drives to San Diego for the weekend and pays for sex. The company at which you work, informs you on Monday morning that because of the actions of your brother, who is related to you, you are fired from your job. You’re pissed, but just when you think you can get another job, your former boss has called everyone in the area, and tells them not to hire you, and you can’t find work for the next two years.
    Sucks doesn’t it? Unfair, isn’t it? You are guilty by association, and yet you did nothing wrong.

    __
    Your analogy doesn’t hold water as regards the Bush situation. The rules clearly state that family is not allowed to receive benefits from agents. And it’s not like Pete Carroll didn’t know who Ornstein was, since Ornstein was at tons fo USC practices and it was well known what he was all about. Carroll bolted once the getting wasn’t so good, so there is no surprise that he was aware of what was going on.

  37. papabush88 says: Mar 23, 2012 1:51 PM

    Again, please provide proof that Carroll the AD or anyone else knew what was going on with Reggie. The NCAA cleared Carroll and all others, EXCEPT for Ornstein and Reggie. You have also claimed that USC paid Reggie and have provided not one single piece of evidence. Yahoo! Sports blew the whistle on Reggie years before Carroll left. Please provide evidence of USC paying Reggie. If you cannot, then your argument doesn’t hold water.

  38. papabush88 says: Mar 23, 2012 2:07 PM

    bozosforall: You keep saying USC pays its players to this day, but you have no proof. In regards to violators of the NCAA rules. The SEC is the worst all time violators, followed by the Big 12, and then followed by the Pac 10/12. Some have the SEC and Big 12 switched. USC isn’t even the worst violator in its own conference. Arizona State is, followed by Cal. Alabama, Auburn, and Georgia lead the SEC in violations. Oklahoma leads the Big 12.

  39. Deb says: Mar 23, 2012 3:06 PM

    @bozosforall …

    Sure you have to take the bad with the good, which is why I probably wouldn’t comment if you were just ragging him on the recent stuff with Reggie Bush, etc. Just seems that going back to 1935 is a bit much. The culture changes through the years. Dude … John Wayne played for that football team. They can’t be all bad ;)

    @papabush …

    One of the fascinating things about the Potter series is that the material ages with the character. The first book was written about an 11-year-old character and targeted to that age range. The material becomes darker and more complex with each book.

  40. bozosforall says: Mar 23, 2012 3:18 PM

    papabush88 says:
    Mar 23, 2012 1:51 PM
    Again, please provide proof that Carroll the AD or anyone else knew what was going on with Reggie. The NCAA cleared Carroll and all others, EXCEPT for Ornstein and Reggie. You have also claimed that USC paid Reggie and have provided not one single piece of evidence. Yahoo! Sports blew the whistle on Reggie years before Carroll left. Please provide evidence of USC paying Reggie. If you cannot, then your argument doesn’t hold water.

    __
    Anyone with half a brain knows that schools like USC have boosters that funnel money directly to players. USC knew who Ornstein was, allowed him on campus to attend many practices (which gave him direct access to players) and turned a blind eye when he gave players such as Bush money. Lonnie White (nowhere near Bush’s status as a USC player) blew the lid off of the fact that he received over $14,000 in illegal payments while at USC. For the USC administration to pretend that they didn’t know what happened is as ludicrous as the Penn State Board of Trustees pretending that they had no clue what Sandusky had been up to all these years. Allowing Ornstein continued access to players is on a par with Sandusky getting continual access to the Penn State athletic facilities so that he could continue his own nefarious activities. Actually, USC benefitted more from continuing to allow Ornstein to give players such as Bush money than Penn State did letting Sandusky still hang around (unless by doing so they were buying his silence in some weird way). Excusemakers such as you make this situation all the more laughable. Reggie got money (and gifts) from Ornstein and if Lonnie White, a bit player in USC lore, got over $14,000 in improper payments then there is no way that any rational person could deny that Reggie Bush got at least as much. I don’t need videotape to show that this is the case (and even having videotape doesn’t do anything, since the evidence can easily be destroyed as we saw in the Spygate scandal).

  41. papabush88 says: Mar 23, 2012 3:20 PM

    Deb: John Wayne is a fraternity brother, a great Trojan, and a great American. Nice reference. I am still waiting to see bozosforall’s evidence to his repeated claim that “USC paid Reggie Bush and other current players.”

    In regards to Harry Potter. I have seen the latest films, one of which the kids come upon a time machine-like device. I immediately protested as to why they just don’t use the device in every movie, but my wife promises that it is better explained in the books as in most books turned to films. It is interesting as the characters develop and age, the story darkens and ages as well for its readers. My wife is a big fan. I appreciate the fantasy genre in both film and books, but it was never my favorite. I prefer sci-fi over fantasy/wizards/magic, but Rowlings and Tolkien are and were great writers, respectively.

  42. bozosforall says: Mar 23, 2012 3:27 PM

    Deb says:
    Mar 23, 2012 3:06 PM
    @bozosforall …

    Sure you have to take the bad with the good, which is why I probably wouldn’t comment if you were just ragging him on the recent stuff with Reggie Bush, etc. Just seems that going back to 1935 is a bit much. The culture changes through the years. Dude … John Wayne played for that football team. They can’t be all bad

    __
    Don’t confuse John Wayne with the characters that he played. He was no saint either. In fact, Wayne got his first job in the movies by making a deal with Tom Mix, the job for USC football tickets. Not knocking the Duke but that is a true story. Anyway, Doheny didn’t start boosting USC sports until after Wayne’s football career was over.

  43. papabush88 says: Mar 23, 2012 3:32 PM

    bozosforall: You are still just speculating. The USC situation is NOT the same as Penn State. In the Sandusky/Penn State situation, members of the Penn State organization KNEW of the allegations against Sandusky. It has been proven that they knew from assistant coaches seeing Sandusky involved in his various disgusting acts to the higher-ups. That is called proof, and that was even without an NCAA investigation. The official NCAA investigation of the Reggie Bush scandal cleared all USC affiliated members. Ornstein and Bush were the rule breakers. The punishment should have been limited to them. Innocent until proven guilty. USC was never proven guilty. Sorry, the USC haters lost. Their mild victory was the excessive and egregious sanctions placed on the school. Not even that could stop USC. Now, a team being watched under a microscope will STILL be a Top 2 team. Last year’s team just gave the finger to the NCAA. This year, they will recapture their throne.

  44. bozosforall says: Mar 23, 2012 3:33 PM

    papabush88 says:
    Mar 23, 2012 3:20 PM
    Deb: John Wayne is a fraternity brother, a great Trojan, and a great American. Nice reference. I am still waiting to see bozosforall’s evidence to his repeated claim that “USC paid Reggie Bush and other current players.”

    In regards to Harry Potter. I have seen the latest films, one of which the kids come upon a time machine-like device. I immediately protested as to why they just don’t use the device in every movie, but my wife promises that it is better explained in the books as in most books turned to films. It is interesting as the characters develop and age, the story darkens and ages as well for its readers. My wife is a big fan. I appreciate the fantasy genre in both film and books, but it was never my favorite. I prefer sci-fi over fantasy/wizards/magic, but Rowlings and Tolkien are and were great writers, respectively.

    __
    Figures that you are into sci-fi, given that you are living in a fantasy world where USC has never done wrong. USC (just as you claimed earlier about Oregon) turned a blind eye to boosters paying players. These boosters are nothing more than strawmen for the university, funneling the money directly to the players instead of donating it to the athletic department. No matter how the money was routed, the result was the same…USC benefitted from the exchange of cash from the boosters to players. Lonnie White blew the lid off of the practice and to pretend that Bush didn’t get any of that money is nothing more than willful ignorance.

  45. bozosforall says: Mar 23, 2012 3:37 PM

    papabush88 says:
    Mar 23, 2012 3:32 PM
    bozosforall: You are still just speculating. The USC situation is NOT the same as Penn State. In the Sandusky/Penn State situation, members of the Penn State organization KNEW of the allegations against Sandusky. It has been proven that they knew from assistant coaches seeing Sandusky involved in his various disgusting acts to the higher-ups. That is called proof, and that was even without an NCAA investigation. The official NCAA investigation of the Reggie Bush scandal cleared all USC affiliated members. Ornstein and Bush were the rule breakers. The punishment should have been limited to them. Innocent until proven guilty. USC was never proven guilty. Sorry, the USC haters lost. Their mild victory was the excessive and egregious sanctions placed on the school. Not even that could stop USC. Now, a team being watched under a microscope will STILL be a Top 2 team. Last year’s team just gave the finger to the NCAA. This year, they will recapture their throne.

    __
    Recapture the throne? Maybe the porcelain throne. I’ll be the one laughing when USC stumbles and a team like Oregon (a team that you accused earlier of illegal spending) beats them. Just like the Patriots haven’t won a title since being under the microscope, neither will USC.

  46. papabush88 says: Mar 23, 2012 3:49 PM

    The John Wayne/Tom Mix story is actually more incriminating of Mix than Wayne. Wayne wanted a job and Mix extorted him for football tickets. At the end of the day, who cares? Big deal. The society that punishes those for accepting charitable contributions (like Lonnie White who couldn’t afford to pay rent and other things) is a society that scares me. I am all for Capitalism, but those that want to take care of the less fortunate should be encouraged to do so. I grew up in Catholic schools and volunteering for many charities. Whether it was feeding the poor, or helping teach and help the marginalized, I glad I did what I did. Maybe the most beloved coach of all time at the collegiate level is John Wooden, former HC of UCLA basketball. I respect him, even as a USC fan. Yet, had the same rules been enforced during his tenure as they are now, Wooden would have to forfeit 8 championships for his UCLA basketball team. UCLA booster Sam Gilbert paid players improper benefits for years. Wooden admitted that he knew Gilbert was up to no good. Didn’t do much to stop Gilbert. But guess what? Who cares? It is NOT a big deal. There is a higher power than that of the beaurocratic NCAA.

    http://www.esquire.com/the-side/feature/college-basketball-history-2009

  47. papabush88 says: Mar 23, 2012 3:54 PM

    Zing! Nice comeback with the sci-fi fantasy joke. Great stuff. Well, the illegal payments made by the Oregon staff are documented and true. I’m sure in the past, there have been a few bad apples involved with USC. But as far as the Reggie Bush scandal, it is well documented that no one else at USC knew about it.

  48. Deb says: Mar 23, 2012 3:54 PM

    @papabush …

    I haven’t seen any of the films … waiting until I finish the books. My brother tells me the books are much better. I’m not a sci-fi, fantasy reader at all–these are way out of my usual reading material.

    @bozosforall …

    Goodness gracious, must you be such a party pooper? I’ve edited a book on John Wayne, am thoroughly familiar with his feet of clay, and couldn’t be more opposite him politically. And I have a large collection of his Western films plus a huge portrait of him on the wall. He’s an iconic symbol of Americana. You seem to want to focus on the negatives. Most things–and people–are multi-faceted.

  49. papabush88 says: Mar 23, 2012 5:10 PM

    It’s a sad sad day when people slam American icons like John Wayne.

  50. bozosforall says: Mar 23, 2012 9:48 PM

    Deb says:
    Mar 23, 2012 3:54 PM

    @bozosforall …

    Goodness gracious, must you be such a party pooper? I’ve edited a book on John Wayne, am thoroughly familiar with his feet of clay, and couldn’t be more opposite him politically. And I have a large collection of his Western films plus a huge portrait of him on the wall. He’s an iconic symbol of Americana. You seem to want to focus on the negatives. Most things–and people–are multi-faceted.
    __
    Not debating that he isn’t “iconic”. Hell, I like his movies as much as anyone, but I’ve read several books on the man and know what his flaws are, as well as his strong points. The guy was loyal to a fault (a good thing IMO) but also drank like a fish. He was pretty chauvinistic but was an honourable man otherwise. Yeah, like you said…multi-faceted. The difference is that I have no problem discussing both sides of the coin. Doesn’t make me dislike the man at all.

    And as for “focusing on the negatives”…let’s just say that I usually try to balance out whatever the prevailing mood here is…good or bad. When I see someone getting overly praised, I take them down a notch or three. When I see someone getting overly bashed, I defend them. Check out all of my posts before you come to the incomplete conclusion that you have made so far, Deb.

  51. bozosforall says: Mar 23, 2012 9:52 PM

    The society that punishes those for accepting charitable contributions (like Lonnie White who couldn’t afford to pay rent and other things)

    __
    That’s just weak reasoning. White knew what the deal was when he accepted the scholarship. His alternative was to go out and get a real job if he wanted to make money. As for his “need” to pay rent, that shouldn’t have even been necessary since most schools have athletic dormitories that they let the athletes live in for free. You are just reaching.

  52. bozosforall says: Mar 23, 2012 9:53 PM

    papabush88 says:
    Mar 23, 2012 5:10 PM
    It’s a sad sad day when people slam American icons like John Wayne.

    __
    Not “slamming” anyone (and I totally expected the exact comeback from someone as predictable as you), just stating facts about the guy. Putting the blame on Tom Mix is another reach, since it takes two to tango (or in this case, break the rules regarding amateur athletics).

  53. Deb says: Mar 23, 2012 10:15 PM

    @bozosforall …

    Actually, that wasn’t an incomplete conclusion. As you said, if you see someone or something being overly praised, you take the other position. So in that instance, you were being negative. :)

  54. papabush88 says: Mar 23, 2012 11:40 PM

    Yea I’m done with this. It’s stupid. Getting attacked for being proud of my team. What a big man you are. It’s ok though. I understand people are jealous of USC. You’ve failed in bringing me down any notches. I know how good my team is this year, last year and all time. Sorry if I believe in charity. It’s not weak at all. It’s a stupid rule in the first place. You believe in White saying that
    he accepted money but you don’t believe him when he was quoted as saying he couldn’t pay afford rent. Most of these players come from poor backgrounds. They could use the help.if they are not allowed to.pursue the job they want when they want. It’s not like basketball where they can be one and done.

  55. bozosforall says: Mar 24, 2012 12:11 AM

    You are the one who started with the insults towards what you referred to as “bandwagon fans”, trying to elevate yourself above people whom you have no idea about.

    And as for the “they are not allowed to pursue the jobs they want” statement, it’s a pretty much known fact that almost every college player isn’t really ready, physically or mentally for the grind of the NFL game, which is why the rule was put into place.

    Again, the rent excuse holds no water, because college athletes get free room and board as part of their scholarships. More likely, he wanted partying money instead. Well, if he wants that, let him leave school and get a job in the real world. No one is stopping him except himself.

  56. papabush88 says: Mar 24, 2012 12:29 AM

    Snoop Dogg is a bandwagon fan. He only showed up during the 2004 and 2005 seasons. I think it may have been rent for his family. It’s all true because I say it is. Just like you stating that USC paid Reggie and still pays its players. It’s true cuz you said it is. I can say whatever I want about bandwagon fans. USC has its fair share of them. Snoop didn’t hang around when Reggie and Leinart left. Also most of these players are pretty pig headed. They’ve been idolized by others throughout their life, especially in high school. Coaches wine and dine them letting them know how good they are. So, even if they aren’t physically or mentally ready for the NFL, many of them think they are. It must kill you that USC is back on top. I know a sore loser when I are one, and you are one big fat sore loser.

  57. bozosforall says: Mar 24, 2012 9:30 PM

    USC isn’t “back on top”, mama bush. They haven’t. Won anything lately, so until they do, you need to STHU.

  58. papabush88 says: Mar 25, 2012 1:35 AM

    I don’t know why you’re so afraid of USC being back on top. You can’t be in denial forever. Great job at continually using derogatory language. Really helping your case. Doesn’t make you look desperate at all.

  59. Edgy is Under THEE Thumb says: Mar 25, 2012 10:11 AM

    bozobrain/Edgy sez = “You are the one who started with the insults”

    Gee bozo/Edgy – Your “Edgy senses” (not knowing what you are talking about nor remembering what you’ve already said) must have kicked in on that one, the first insult in this thread was hurled in your post saying:

    “Oregon has Phil Knight’s money backing them, idiot.”

    Up until then, it was banter back and forth, then the quickly spiraled down with all the “Edgy attacks”. Others are allowed their opinion in this forum, not just you.

    PS – you’re not fooling anyone with this new name either.

  60. bozosforall says: Mar 25, 2012 1:05 PM

    Not afraid one bit. Hey just aren’t on top, as you claim. Again, until they do, you need to STHU.

  61. bozosforall says: Mar 26, 2012 12:44 PM

    Edgy is Under THEE Thumb says:
    Mar 25, 2012 10:11 AM
    bozobrain/Edgy sez = “You are the one who started with the insults”

    Gee bozo/Edgy – Your “Edgy senses” (not knowing what you are talking about nor remembering what you’ve already said) must have kicked in on that one, the first insult in this thread was hurled in your post saying:

    “Oregon has Phil Knight’s money backing them, idiot.”

    Up until then, it was banter back and forth, then the quickly spiraled down with all the “Edgy attacks”. Others are allowed their opinion in this forum, not just you.

    PS – you’re not fooling anyone with this new name either.

    __
    New name? Who the F is “Edgy”? I’ve never seen that poster here before.

    BTW, here is where the “insults” started, lamebrain.

    “the bandwagons are coming out. Snoop Dogg, Will Ferrell, Nick Lachey.”

    Just because they are celebrities and aren’t here to defend themselves doesn’t make mamabush’s comments any less of an “insult”.

    As for “THEE Thumb”, stick it up your rectum.

  62. Edgy is Under THEE Thumb says: Mar 27, 2012 12:59 PM

    Your “BUSTED!!!!!!!” bozobrain/Edgy (in disguise but not fooling anyone), you answered in true Edgy-like fashion.

    If you’re not “Edgy”, you sure like too dish out a big helping of negative to anyone who disagrees with you in the same format Edgy uses. Like Edgy, a differing opinion makes one, in your words “an idiot”; then there’s the followup sophomoric gay slur “Non-hetero. Sounds like a condition that you are all to familiar with. Congratulations for coming out of the closet.” Then “Try expanding your mind sometime, mamabush…instead of your waistline, couch potato.” Now you refer to me as “lamebrain”.

    I agree with polegojim – try growing a thicker skin.

    If Snoop Dogg, Will Ferrell or Nick Lachey were offended, they could speak up themselves. Unless you are an authorized spokesman for them, follow a little of your own advice and “STHU” yourself bozo/Edgy.

  63. bozosforall says: Mar 28, 2012 8:16 PM

    Edgy is Under THEE Thumb says:
    Mar 27, 2012 12:59 PM
    Your “BUSTED!!!!!!!” bozobrain/Edgy (in disguise but not fooling anyone), you answered in true Edgy-like fashion.

    If you’re not “Edgy”, you sure like too dish out a big helping of negative to anyone who disagrees with you in the same format Edgy uses. Like Edgy, a differing opinion makes one, in your words “an idiot”; then there’s the followup sophomoric gay slur “Non-hetero. Sounds like a condition that you are all to familiar with. Congratulations for coming out of the closet.” Then “Try expanding your mind sometime, mamabush…instead of your waistline, couch potato.” Now you refer to me as “lamebrain”.

    I agree with polegojim – try growing a thicker skin.

    If Snoop Dogg, Will Ferrell or Nick Lachey were offended, they could speak up themselves. Unless you are an authorized spokesman for them, follow a little of your own advice and “STHU” yourself bozo/Edgy.

    __
    Thicker skin? Don’t need it, since I couldn’t care less what you think of me.

    If anything, it’s you who needs the thicker skin, since you are the one crying here.

    Run along back home to your mommy, little boy.

    As for being “BUSTED”, your use of “your” instead of “you’re” only further illustrates who is the idiot here.

    If you can’t take the insults, then GTHO.

  64. Edgy is Under THEE Thumb says: Mar 29, 2012 9:48 AM

    bozo/edgy – always with the insults no matter what, so typically Edgy-lame.

    You’ve been crying a river in this thread since your first post a week ago over a perceived insult that had nothing to do with you except the opportunity to vent your nastiness and attack Deb, papabush and anyone else disagreeing with the “all mighty Edgy opinion”.

    Oh no – now a grammar police insult and you called me another name. Zing – you got me.

    Is it getting a little warm for you on being called out for who you are but aren’t trying to be Edgy?

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