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Liberty next up to make jump up a level in football

Gill Falwell

Already in the past several years, a handful or two of Div. 1-AA (FCS) football programs have made the jump to the Div. 1-A (FBS) level.  This year alone, four programs — South Alabama (Sun Belt), Texas State (WAC), UMass (MAC) and UT-San Antonio (WAC) — will be making the jump.

Georgia State will be making the move to the big-boy level of football next year, as will Charlotte in 2015, while Appalachian State is on the verge of doing the same.

Now, another program is prepared to take that step up the football ladder.

During his commencement address Saturday, Liberty University chancellor Jerry Falwell Jr. (pictured, left) announced that, as the Lynchburg News & Advance wrote, the Flames are ready to make the leap to the Football Bowl Subdivision.  The decision is the result of a feasibility study that commenced in December, shortly after the hiring of former Kansas head coach Turner Gill (pictured, right) for the same position with the Flames.

While a press conference will be held at 1 p.m. Monday afternoon to address the decision, Falwell Jr. issued a press release confirming the news he broke during the commencement speech.

“Competing at the highest levels of collegiate competition has been the vision for Liberty University since its founding in 1971,” Falwell said in a press release. “It is exciting to watch the fulfillment of that dream taking shape as Liberty now has the financial resources, facilities, academic support and athletics professionals necessary to move forward.”

Even as Liberty, a private Christian university founded over 40 years ago by the Rev. Jerry Falwell, has the desire to move up a level, they cannot do so without an official invitation from a 1-A conference, which is much the same position in which Appalachian State finds itself.

The News & Advance notes that the Sun Belt and MAC are the most likely options, and the school is hoping that the positive end to the feasibility study will prompt conferences to take an interest in the football program.

One plus for the two conferences mentioned is stadium size.  While Williams Stadium seats just 19,200 fans now, there are plans to expand the stadium to a capacity of 30,000 in the very near future.  Such a number would put LU behind just three of 12 schools in the MAC* — Western Michigan and Eastern Michigan at 30,200, Central Michigan at 30,199 — and make them very competitive attendance-wise in the Sun Belt — seven of the 10 schools currently in the conference have stadiums with listed capacities between 30,000 and 31,000, with new member South Alabama topping the league at just over 40,000.

(*13th member UMass will play its home games at Gillette Stadium, home of the NFL’s New England Patriots)

Adding Liberty would expand the MAC’s footprint to seven states, the Sun Belt’s to eight.

Regardless of where Liberty ultimately lands, the school is confident it’s ready to take that next step with its football program.

“There has always been great commitment from our university to our NCAA Division I athletics programs and everything we have done has been with intent and purpose,” athletic director Jeff Barber said in his statement. “Our university and athletics program have gone through tremendous transformation during the past five years, and because of this, we are ready for FBS football.”

(Photo credit: Liberty athletics)

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77 Responses to “Liberty next up to make jump up a level in football”
  1. klandon52 says: May 14, 2012 12:12 PM

    Why do these little programs think they can have a piece of the pie in the FBS? Just because it’s a big pie doesn’t mean they will get a sufficient piece, the major schools/conferences will always get more than them (TV deals, recruiting, etc.). Not a fan of the rampant expansion of D1 football. More is not always better.

  2. Deb says: May 14, 2012 12:53 PM

    Please … make it stop! Division IA needs to be pared down to a manageable number of teams that can have a reasonable shot at the playoffs. The last thing we need now is a lot more itty-bitties playing high-school schedules jumping in and declaring themselves eligible for the brackets because they have a winning record against opponents my nephew’s Pop Warner team could beat.

    Some grownups need to take over this process.

  3. hardcorenegro says: May 14, 2012 1:04 PM

    They were a so-so 1aa program. They never even made the playoffs, so why do they think they can compete on the 1a level?

  4. bozosforall says: May 14, 2012 1:18 PM

    Deb says:
    May 14, 2012 12:53 PM
    Please … make it stop! Division IA needs to be pared down to a manageable number of teams that can have a reasonable shot at the playoffs. The last thing we need now is a lot more itty-bitties playing high-school schedules jumping in and declaring themselves eligible for the brackets because they have a winning record against opponents my nephew’s Pop Warner team could beat.

    Some grownups need to take over this process.

    ____
    Right. They should start by moving Alabama down to the FCS. Bet that recruiting advantage that they currently have over most other schools evaporates in a heartbeat.

  5. coolhorn says: May 14, 2012 1:34 PM

    Pardon the pun, but Liberty doesn’t have a prayer if they move up.

  6. Deb says: May 14, 2012 1:44 PM

    @bozosforall …

    You may dislike the bluntness of my comments, but they’re on topic and make sense. As hardcorenegro points out, Liberty can’t even make the playoffs competing in the FCS. How is this school supposed to compete in Division IA?

    Two years ago, I watched a roundtable discussion between major college football figures discussing the difficulty of small, financially underwhelming schools competing against major programs and the difficulty that raises in arranging home-and-away games, ensuring equally competitive schedules, and ultimately achieving the kind of playoff system most of us long to see in college football. The consensus among those commenters was that Division IA would have to eliminate its smaller, less viable programs by creating another division for the Boise States, etc. In an environment where Division IA cannot accommodate many of the teams it already has, we now have new teams trying to crash a party where they cannot hope to compete.

    My comment was accurate. The football powers need to appoint a Blue Ribbon panel to divide these teams into workable divisions before anymore conference expansion occurs so that we can proceed in a logical fashion.

    You’re just doing the blog equivalent of throwing food in the lunchroom.

  7. kevindavid40 says: May 14, 2012 1:51 PM

    The large D1 works in basketball because of the various playoff formats. All this is going to lead to in football is another half dozen or so bowl games that nobody cares about.

  8. fcmlefty1 says: May 14, 2012 2:12 PM

    “The large D1 works in basketball because of the various playoff formats. All this is going to lead to in football is another half dozen or so bowl games that nobody cares about.”

    It also works because you only need 2 dominant starters to be a NCAA tournament worthy b-ball team. Good recruiting, money advantages be damned, can accomplish that.

    I wouldn’t worry about the bowl game thing quite yet. Thats going to get a re-vamp once the playoff structure is finalized. I’d be shocked if we don’t lose 1/2 dozen bowl games, much less add any.

  9. bozosforall says: May 14, 2012 2:48 PM

    Deb says:
    May 14, 2012 1:44 PM
    @bozosforall …

    You may dislike the bluntness of my comments, but they’re on topic and make sense. As hardcorenegro points out, Liberty can’t even make the playoffs competing in the FCS. How is this school supposed to compete in Division IA?

    Two years ago, I watched a roundtable discussion between major college football figures discussing the difficulty of small, financially underwhelming schools competing against major programs and the difficulty that raises in arranging home-and-away games, ensuring equally competitive schedules, and ultimately achieving the kind of playoff system most of us long to see in college football. The consensus among those commenters was that Division IA would have to eliminate its smaller, less viable programs by creating another division for the Boise States, etc. In an environment where Division IA cannot accommodate many of the teams it already has, we now have new teams trying to crash a party where they cannot hope to compete.

    My comment was accurate. The football powers need to appoint a Blue Ribbon panel to divide these teams into workable divisions before anymore conference expansion occurs so that we can proceed in a logical fashion.

    You’re just doing the blog equivalent of throwing food in the lunchroom.

    __
    Explain UCONN’s swift rise to prominence once they got to be in one of the AQ conferences by virtue of their basketball program already being in the Big East.

    Tell me that Duke or Vanderbilt would really be anything special absent their affiliations with the ACC and SEC respectively.

    Fact is, the conference affiliation feeds recruiting, which feeds off of the fat TV contract.

    Easy for those whose teams are the established big boys to root for cuts to D-I. Why not instead set up a system like the English soccer system, where if your team performs poorly on the football field, you get demoted and another second-tier team gets a shot at the big time? Are the “big boys” scared that absent their built-in advantage that they would fail to be able to hold on to their exalted status in the current caste system of the NCAA?

  10. fcmlefty1 says: May 14, 2012 3:43 PM

    @deb – while Bozo is a little harsh maybe, he does have a point in a way. It was only, what, a decade ago that Bama was really struggling. Heck, I watched my hometown Gophers take them to the woodshed in the Music City Bowl of all places. These things do indeed run in cycles – one good head coaching hire and back to back stellar recruiting classes can turn just about anybody into a BCS worthy team.

    Now, you do have a point when it comes to maybe dividing up the classes a bit. But it shouldn’t be based on tradition. You want a “big boy” league? Thats fine, and worthy of debate. All the NCAA really would have to do is lay out the parameters for each division (football budget, investment in facilities, attendance among others) and see who falls where. I think where you are a little off is about who falls where. Judging by your general comments you’ve made in this thread and others, there are only about 15-20 schools that would make your cut for the top division, because I think you are a little off on what the average college stadium has for capacity.

    Your overall sentiment is correct though. For the most part, the Sunbelt, whats left of the WAC, and the MAC have no business in the same class as the power conferences. Most of them should probably be FCS schools. In my opinion, when I watch them, I see them in the same light as, say, North Dakota State, and as light years away from Big 12 or Big 10 football. The ACC, Big East, Mountain West, and Conf USA, for the most part, all seem to be stuck between those two classes of teams. The catch there, of course, comes down to a couple of ACC programs who aspire to be more in Florida State, Miami and Va Tech along with probably Boise State, BYU, Houston, SMU and UCF.

    Sorry if this got long and rambling….

  11. Deb says: May 14, 2012 4:07 PM

    @bozosforall …

    I can’t explain anything to you about UCONN or Duke. I’m a football fan, which is why I’m commenting on College Football Talk. Don’t even know off the top of my head which BB team won in March.

    There’s a difference between sucking and being rinky dink. Alabama has been a major college program for nearly a century, just as Michigan, Ohio State, Texas, Oklahoma, Southern Cal, and Florida are major programs. Sometimes, however, those programs go through periods of suckiness. Alabama certainly has. But during their periods of suckiness, they’re still playing LSU, Arkansas, Florida, Auburn, and other top-quality teams. They’re not suddenly playing the local high schools.

    Having a losing season in a Division IA program does not equate to suddenly playing a Division II or Division III schedule. My argument is that the overcrowded Division IA does not–at this volatile time–need to be adding current FCS teams to its roster. Recruiting never entered my mind. I’m more than happy for Alabama to compete with Liberty in recruiting. If any of our recruits prefer Liberty, good luck to them.

  12. Deb says: May 14, 2012 4:19 PM

    @fmclefty1 …

    bozosforall just enjoys pot-stirring. You should read his diatribes on the Patriots and USC. Most of the stuff he’s posting on this issue is just goofy but if he says an Alabama is scared to recruit alongside Liberty, some people will get off on that.

    You posted: Your overall sentiment is correct though. For the most part, the Sunbelt, whats left of the WAC, and the MAC have no business in the same class as the power conferences. Most of them should probably be FCS schools.

    Yes, that’s exactly what I said. Thank you. Sure, Bama has had it’s winning and losing season, but it has continued to play a Div IA schedule throughout–as has Florida, Oklahoma, Washington, Penn State, and every other Div IA team that’s suffered a losing season. Having a losing season–or 10 losing seasons–doesn’t make you an FCS team. Your size and the quality of your opponents make you an FCS team.

    Judging by your general comments … there are only about 15-20 schools that would make your cut for the top division, because I think you are a little off on what the average college stadium has for capacity.

    No, that number for me is about 70 schools. But I’m focusing only on their football teams. Liberty is not on the list. :)

  13. raiderdoug says: May 14, 2012 4:56 PM

    How is D-IA/FBS “overcrowded”?

    Did someone strap you down and force you guys to watch the MAC game of the week?

    Is the Sunbelt stealing your credit card #’s, and charging season tickets on them?

    Who cares if Liberty wants to move up. They’ll move into the Sunbelt or the MAC, and no one will ever see or hear from them unless they get really good (i.e. Boise St.).

    It doesn’t even change the payout, if anything, the small conferences just slice their already small section of the pie into more pieces. They’re not even competing for the same TV time slots.

    Anyone wanting to move from FBS into MAC/Sunbelt doesn’t have one thing to do with anything SEC/B10/B12/P12 does or doesn’t do.

    Personally, I like to see the little teams do well, and hope they get at least one seed in any playoff. They probably deserve a shot more than some B10/B12 team that finishes 7-6.

  14. fcmlefty1 says: May 14, 2012 5:07 PM

    I watch my fair share of FCS football. I’ve seen a squad or two that, for that one particular championship year, might have put some fear into some of the better FBS teams that particular year. Liberty never has been on my radar for being that type of squad.

    All these teams moving up should look squarely at where the Idaho Vandals find themselves. They were a very respectable FCS squad, tried the FBS, and more or less failed in spectacular fashion. Now they would be better served going back to the FCS. It should be a cautionary tale.

    I know what most of these schools think: They see the meteoric rise of Boise State and think they can easily duplicate it in the same time frame or even shorter.. High time that most people just accept that its only going to happen once or twice a lifetime, not to every school that tries it.

  15. Deb says: May 14, 2012 6:05 PM

    @raiderdoug …

    Sigh … if you were truly interested in seeing small teams succeed, you wouldn’t want them in Div IA/FBS. Once upon a time, as the season wound to a close, the top five or six teams in the polls would still have a shot at the national title. The champion wasn’t decided until the final polls were released after all the bowls had been played. Now the final two are decided by the first week in December. Most teams have been eliminated from consideration by early November.

    Moving forward with the implementation of a playoff system, a lot of people will fight to ensure the final four either come from the four major conferences or that their selection is heavily weighted by strength of schedule. So where will that leave your little MWC, WAC, and Liberty underdogs? Without hope of ever competing for a title.

    Instead, if they don’t want to be part of the FCS, why not do the smart thing and create another tier of competition between FCS and FBS for those teams? Put them where they’ll have a genuine opportunity to contend for a real championship in their own weight class. No, they won’t get the shot at the heavyweight title. But that doesn’t mean they couldn’t be well-respected middleweight champs. It’s asinine to insist they compete as heavyweights when they’re too small and have zero chance of winning. You may think they’re just in it for the thrill of the sport, but most athletes would at least like the opportunity to take home a trophy.

  16. Deb says: May 14, 2012 6:12 PM

    @fmclefty1 …

    Boise State hasn’t proved anything, either. They’ve played one or two meat-and-potatoes teams amid a sea of cupcakes. And it’s easy to play fresh in the post-season when you haven’t been beaten up in the regular season. If the playoff rankings are heavily weighted on strength of schedule–as they should be–Boise’s future rankings should more realistically reflect the Broncos’ actual accomplishments.

  17. bertenheim says: May 14, 2012 7:16 PM

    Don’t blame Boise for their non-con sched. The big schools won’t pay for a one-game arrangement with them and won’t agree to a home-and-home.

  18. bozosforall says: May 14, 2012 7:36 PM

    Deb says:
    May 14, 2012 4:07 PM
    @bozosforall …

    I can’t explain anything to you about UCONN or Duke. I’m a football fan, which is why I’m commenting on College Football Talk. Don’t even know off the top of my head which BB team won in March.

    There’s a difference between sucking and being rinky dink. Alabama has been a major college program for nearly a century, just as Michigan, Ohio State, Texas, Oklahoma, Southern Cal, and Florida are major programs. Sometimes, however, those programs go through periods of suckiness. Alabama certainly has. But during their periods of suckiness, they’re still playing LSU, Arkansas, Florida, Auburn, and other top-quality teams. They’re not suddenly playing the local high schools.

    Having a losing season in a Division IA program does not equate to suddenly playing a Division II or Division III schedule. My argument is that the overcrowded Division IA does not–at this volatile time–need to be adding current FCS teams to its roster. Recruiting never entered my mind. I’m more than happy for Alabama to compete with Liberty in recruiting. If any of our recruits prefer Liberty, good luck to them.

    __
    I WAS talking college football…particularly the fact that UCONN snuck into D-I and got to slide right into the Big East…and that teams like Duke and Vandy are in the ACC and SEC in FOOTBALL (when they would be better served to be a part of a non-football league like the Big East used to be…at least using the logic that so many of you are promoting regarding the limiting of D-I teams).

    And as far as “competing with Liberty in recruiting”, you missed the point. What I said was that if the playing field were level in regards to TV money and conference affiliation, the gap between the Alabamas and the Libertys would be a hell of a lot closer. And as for banking on legacy, explain U of Miami, which basically had none prior to Howard Schnellenberger’s arrival on campus. FSU wasn’t anything special until around 1987 under Bowden. Penn State wasn’t anything special until Paterno got there. None of these (and many others I could cite) have that “century” of legacy that you speak of, yet they get a seat at the table. And as far as playing the other “top-quality” teams, the little guys can’t play them if they aren’t allowed to regularly schedule the games, which having a particular conference affiliation makes a hell of a lot easier than if you aren’t in a “major” conference. Let the smaller conferences exist, let them all play each other for just ONE seat at the table every year…and if they lose every time, so be it. Chances are though, that one or more of those teams will parlay that chance into an opportunity to make it to the big time. True competition is the American way…and limiting that competition by excluding teams that aren’t “historically” successful is nothing short of monopolistic behavior (which in any other industry in America is illegal).

  19. dmcgrann says: May 14, 2012 7:38 PM

    UConn’s football program has “risen to prominence” and Duke’s football program is “special”? Huh! Who knew?

    Liberty is really, really stretching on this one. They do have a lot of money, and a lot of faith, but I think their faith pockets are deeper than their money pockets. They hired Turner Gill after he was fired from KU to replace Danny Rocco, perhaps their most successful coach, who jumped ship to coach Richmond. Their first FCS-level head coach was Sam Rutigliano, the former Browns coach.

    Liberty’s main problem is that no one wants to play them, because no one can stand the idea of losing to them. They’re lucky to get good FCS opponents outside of the Big South for nonconference games.

    It kills me to see some folks who see stadium size as a factor. Sure, it is a factor, but when the first D-1 split happened back in the 1980’s, stadium size was a determining factor. They quickly moved away from that to an attendence/scheduling criteria. A lot of the schools that are hell-bent are moving up seem to think that if they spend $50 million on a 25,000 seat stadium that they’re golden. Uh, that’s still 10,000 seats less than Reppert Stadium at Cincinnati, the smallest stadium in the Big East – and the Bearcats can and do play in Paul Brown Stadium when the big draws come to Cincy.

    And, @Deb, you said, “…if they don’t want to be part of the FCS, why not do the smart thing and create another tier of competition between FCS and FBS for those teams?”

    Well, that’s exactly what’s happening. We know it now as the MAC, C-USA, WAC, MWC, Sun Belt and soon the Big East. The teams in those conferences are not going to be likely candidates for places in the inevitable playoff system that will be implemented soon.

  20. bozosforall says: May 14, 2012 7:39 PM

    Deb says:
    May 14, 2012 4:19 PM
    @fmclefty1 …

    bozosforall just enjoys pot-stirring. You should read his diatribes on the Patriots and USC. Most of the stuff he’s posting on this issue is just goofy but if he says an Alabama is scared to recruit alongside Liberty, some people will get off on that.

    __
    Again, I never said that Alabama was “scared to recruit alongside Liberty”. As a journalist, you should know better than to deliberately misquote someone.

    And given the fact that most times, I am usually defending your Steelers on those Pats threads, you should show a bit more gratitude than you usually do.

    Besides, I potstir (as you put it) to shed light on issues that most people want to sweep under the rug. Sorry if that doesn’t fit your little cookie-cutter world, Deb.

  21. bozosforall says: May 14, 2012 7:45 PM

    dmcgrann says:
    May 14, 2012 7:38 PM
    UConn’s football program has “risen to prominence” and Duke’s football program is “special”? Huh! Who knew?

    Liberty is really, really stretching on this one. They do have a lot of money, and a lot of faith, but I think their faith pockets are deeper than their money pockets. They hired Turner Gill after he was fired from KU to replace Danny Rocco, perhaps their most successful coach, who jumped ship to coach Richmond. Their first FCS-level head coach was Sam Rutigliano, the former Browns coach.

    Liberty’s main problem is that no one wants to play them, because no one can stand the idea of losing to them. They’re lucky to get good FCS opponents outside of the Big South for nonconference games.

    It kills me to see some folks who see stadium size as a factor. Sure, it is a factor, but when the first D-1 split happened back in the 1980′s, stadium size was a determining factor. They quickly moved away from that to an attendence/scheduling criteria. A lot of the schools that are hell-bent are moving up seem to think that if they spend $50 million on a 25,000 seat stadium that they’re golden. Uh, that’s still 10,000 seats less than Reppert Stadium at Cincinnati, the smallest stadium in the Big East – and the Bearcats can and do play in Paul Brown Stadium when the big draws come to Cincy.

    And, @Deb, you said, “…if they don’t want to be part of the FCS, why not do the smart thing and create another tier of competition between FCS and FBS for those teams?”

    Well, that’s exactly what’s happening. We know it now as the MAC, C-USA, WAC, MWC, Sun Belt and soon the Big East. The teams in those conferences are not going to be likely candidates
    __
    Never said that Duke’s football program was “special”…I said that they lucked out by being in the ACC though their football program doesn’t deserve to be there any more or less than the Liberty team does. Which is why a team like Liberty should be able to take their shot, even if it means starting out in a smaller conference. Meanwhile, the Dukes and Vandys of the football world should have to relinquish their spots to the top teams of the lower conferences if they can’t show an ability to compete.

    But you are correct in your statement that the big boys don’t want to risk losing to a little guy. That is but one reason why the B(C)S never wanted to give any other conferences a real chance to have a shot at the National title. Imperialism at its worst.

  22. dmcgrann says: May 14, 2012 7:56 PM

    Liberty does have it’s own football TV deal. I’m pretty sure that they pay the providers to air it, because I doubt that even the rinky-dinkiest regional sports network would produce a sports telecast of a football game with so many interviews with missionaries and so much prayer. That’s their thing, and they can do it all they want, but it’s not the way it’s done in the “big time”, or even the “medium time.”

    It’s almost like a minor-league version of “The Longhorn Network.” I winder if that will be an issue with getting a conference invite.

    I’ve also noted with conference realignment a lot of talk regarding academic reputation and fit among schools. Liberty’s got a full skeleton of a dinosaur on their campus which they say is right around 3,500 years old. How does that fit academically with the other schools in a potential conference?

  23. dmcgrann says: May 14, 2012 8:06 PM

    @bozosforall, but Liberty hasn’t even migrated past the minor league level of FCS. Shouldn’t they at lease get into the “major” part of the FCS before jumping to the BCS?

    I’m a Richmond alum. We begin a home-and-home with Liberty in basketball this year and football and basketball next year. We don’t want to lose to them.

    Richmond used to play VT in football on a regular basis. We haven’t played since we last beat them, years and years ago. VT will still take their chances with JMU, but not a small, private school like Richmond. Back in the day, I never saw the Hokies beat the Spiders in person, much to my joy and to the chagrin of my Hokie brother. Playing Richmond is a lose-lose for VT.

  24. dmcgrann says: May 14, 2012 8:47 PM

    One other thing that hasn’t gotten a lot of national press – there are two other FCS teams from Virginia ready to jump to BCS: Old Dominion (rumor to C-USA) and James Madison (rumor to the MAC; a year ago there was some clamor for the Big East, but what a difference a year makes).

    Now, ODU’s team is a new one, but they started out strong and are in a major TV market (Hampton Roads). Their stadium seats something like 19,082 and their average attendance is 19,082. They’d have to pay up to expand the stadium, but they seem to be poised to be in the enviable position of being the only major college game in what could arguably be an NFL town (my deep apologies to Norfolk State).

    JMU has a recently-expanded 25,000 seat stadium, which they sell out at will, plus a national championship. They don’t add much TV exposure, but they probably need to go to BCS. They’ve basically transformed from a sleepy state teacher’s college to “VT Lite” (that probably ticked off everyone).

    Can the BCS ranks absorb THREE schools from Virginia alone? More interestingly, if ODU and JMU jump, what happens to the CAA? Strong rumor today is that VCU (no football) is jumping to the A10 with Butler. That sort of puts a wrench in the idea that the basketball Big East schools would join up with the A10 schools to form a largely Catholic private university basketball league, since VCU/Butler seems to prop up the A10.

    It’s like untangling three pounds of nightcrawlers. Quiet, but absorbing work.

  25. Deb says: May 14, 2012 8:55 PM

    bertenheim says:

    Don’t blame Boise for their non-con sched. The big schools won’t pay for a one-game arrangement with them and won’t agree to a home-and-home.

    ————————————————-

    And why should the big schools pay for Boise to have a seat at their table? Why should they agree to a home-and-home with a school that can’t possibly match them in stadium revenues? You guys want to slam me and anyone else who dares to say they aren’t playing a competitive schedule, but you expect the bigger schools to pay the tab for them to get a competitive schedule. You don’t want much, do you?

  26. Deb says: May 14, 2012 9:17 PM

    bozosforall says:
    May 14, 2012 7:39 PM

    Again, I never said that Alabama was “scared to recruit alongside Liberty”. As a journalist, you should know better than to deliberately misquote someone.

    And given the fact that most times, I am usually defending your Steelers on those Pats threads, you should show a bit more gratitude than you usually do.

    Besides, I potstir (as you put it) to shed light on issues that most people want to sweep under the rug. Sorry if that doesn’t fit your little cookie-cutter world, Deb.
    ===================================

    But previously bozosforall said:

    They should start by moving Alabama down to the FCS. Bet that recruiting advantage that they currently have over most other schools evaporates in a heartbeat.

    Fact is, the conference affiliation feeds recruiting, which feeds off of the fat TV contract. Easy for those whose teams are the established big boys to root for cuts to D-I. … Are the “big boys” scared that absent their built-in advantage that they would fail to be able to hold on to their exalted status in the current caste system of the NCAA?

    And previously Deb responded that:

    Most of the stuff he’s posting on this issue is just goofy but if he says an Alabama is scared to recruit alongside Liberty, some people will get off on that.

    ————————————————–
    So you did post that Alabama was concerned about losing a recruiting advantage and that the “big boys” were “scared.” I clearly responded that you were speaking of “an” Alabama (meaning one of the big boys) not “the” Alabama. So I did not misquote you–it was the other way around.

    Your diatribes against the Pats have nothing to do with me or the Steelers. Just because I hate a team doesn’t mean I’d condone posting lies about that team or its coaches, nor be grateful to someone that does. I’ve slammed our own fans for posting that tripe.

    As for the pot-stirring comment, anyone here can visit PFT to read your bizarre posts on the Pats. That’s pure hate, not exposing issues. You’re entitled to your opinion–and I’m entitled to disagree. But cookie-cutter world? Yeah, that’s why my posts are so universally popular :roll:

  27. Deb says: May 14, 2012 9:29 PM

    @bozosforall …

    Risk losing to the little guy? You do not know me at all. I want an 8- or 12-team playoff and would be freakin’ thrilled to have Boise State in those brackets. If they’re good enough to beat us … well, good for them!! But I’d like to see them have to prove that on the field once and for all.

    As for this …

    And, @Deb, you said, “…if they don’t want to be part of the FCS, why not do the smart thing and create another tier of competition between FCS and FBS for those teams?”

    Well, that’s exactly what’s happening. We know it now as the MAC, C-USA, WAC, MWC, Sun Belt and soon the Big East. The teams in those conferences are not going to be likely candidates

    That’s just the point, bozo. They’re not going to be likely candidates. So give them a separate tier where they can compete for a championship. Don’t just leave them in the FBS just to be the parsley on the plate.

  28. dmcgrann says: May 14, 2012 11:13 PM

    @Deb, the “@Deb, you said…Well, that’s exactly what’s happening…” post is mine, not bozosforall’s. Fuss at me, not him/her. :)

  29. Deb says: May 14, 2012 11:38 PM

    @dmcgrann …

    Oh, I see … on that bit, he was quoting from your post. As you said re something else, it’s like untangling three pounds of night crawlers (though I’ve never tried that myself).

    Okay, bozos, ignore that part. And you, dmcgrann … what I said there about parsley ;)

  30. Pac12Ute says: May 15, 2012 5:48 AM

    With the addition of Liberty, it looks as if the SEC will have another team to put on their OOC schedule.

  31. fcmlefty1 says: May 15, 2012 9:44 AM

    “And why should the big schools pay for Boise to have a seat at their table? Why should they agree to a home-and-home with a school that can’t possibly match them in stadium revenues? You guys want to slam me and anyone else who dares to say they aren’t playing a competitive schedule, but you expect the bigger schools to pay the tab for them to get a competitive schedule. You don’t want much, do you?”

    Ohio State
    Oklahoma
    USC
    Florida
    LSU
    Mich
    Miami
    Texas
    Alabama
    Wisconsin
    West Virginia
    Georgia
    Auburn
    Utah

    That list is all of the schools besides Boise that have won 2 BCS Bowl games. Do you think any of them are scheduling one offs? Not a chance. They all get one for one if not 2 for 1. By virtue of the 2 BCS bowl wins, Boise has indeed done it on the field.

    Besides that, even if I grant you the one off scenario, the big boys won’t pay it. They’ll pay Idaho 950K, but won’t pony up the same amount for Boise. Why? Fear of dropping a supposed “gimme”. Nothing more, nothing less.

  32. jimbo75025 says: May 15, 2012 9:49 AM

    bozosforall said:
    Never said that Duke’s football program was “special”…I said that they lucked out by being in the ACC though their football program doesn’t deserve to be there any more or less than the Liberty team does. Which is why a team like Liberty should be able to take their shot, even if it means starting out in a smaller conference. Meanwhile, the Dukes and Vandys of the football world should have to relinquish their spots to the top teams of the lower conferences if they can’t show an ability to compete.

    ________________

    Lets stop and think for a minute. Two private universities which do not relax their academic standards much for athletes. Makes sense to me that they may not be able to compete for a NC every year in football-if I was an alumni of either place not sure I would want them to. UVA went through the same quandry in the early 90’s when for a brief period they were ranked #1 in the country before getting knocked off by GT. Some UVA big money donors were a bit upset because they did not want the school to be seen as a football factory.

  33. bozosforall says: May 15, 2012 10:16 AM

    jimbo75025 says:
    May 15, 2012 9:49 AM
    bozosforall said:
    Never said that Duke’s football program was “special”…I said that they lucked out by being in the ACC though their football program doesn’t deserve to be there any more or less than the Liberty team does. Which is why a team like Liberty should be able to take their shot, even if it means starting out in a smaller conference. Meanwhile, the Dukes and Vandys of the football world should have to relinquish their spots to the top teams of the lower conferences if they can’t show an ability to compete.

    ________________

    Lets stop and think for a minute. Two private universities which do not relax their academic standards much for athletes. Makes sense to me that they may not be able to compete for a NC every year in football-if I was an alumni of either place not sure I would want them to. UVA went through the same quandry in the early 90′s when for a brief period they were ranked #1 in the country before getting knocked off by GT. Some UVA big money donors were a bit upset because they did not want the school to be seen as a football factory.

    __
    Can’t have your cake and eat it too.

  34. bozosforall says: May 15, 2012 10:37 AM

    Deb says:
    May 14, 2012 9:29 PM
    @bozosforall …

    That’s just the point, bozo. They’re not going to be likely candidates. So give them a separate tier where they can compete for a championship. Don’t just leave them in the FBS just to be the parsley on the plate.

    __
    The POINT is that they already DO have a seperate tier. It’s called the FCS and they don’t want to be a part of it, better shot at a title or not.

    And given that this is a free country, they should be allowed to make that choice, given that they have all qualified based upon the criteria set out by the powers-that-be. You, of all people (as a so-called journalist/journalism major), should be especially sensitive to the freedoms that we are entitled to enjoy as Americans.

  35. Deb says: May 15, 2012 1:55 PM

    bozosforall says:
    __
    The POINT is that they already DO have a seperate tier. It’s called the FCS and they don’t want to be a part of it, better shot at a title or not.

    And given that this is a free country, they should be allowed to make that choice, given that they have all qualified based upon the criteria set out by the powers-that-be. You, of all people (as a so-called journalist/journalism major), should be especially sensitive to the freedoms that we are entitled to enjoy as Americans.

    ===================================

    I’ve had about enough of your unnecessary snottiness. My journalism degree has nothing to do with this discussion. I have never said anything about being a sports journalist. God is infallible; journalists are not. You clearly believe you know everything about everything. My degree taught me writing and research skills, not the wisdom of the universe. And I missed the amendment in the Bill of Rights that guarantees football teams in the NCAA the freedom to join whatever division they choose regardless of their qualifications.

    We’re all stating our opinions here, and mine are as valid as yours. Yes, I’m well aware of the FCS, thank you. As I’ve said umpteen times, if these teams that are too small to successfully compete against the major programs of the FBS are unhappy with the FCS, perhaps they should create yet another tier between those two. You seem obsessed with whether I misquote you, but it doesn’t seem to bother you to persistently misquote me.

  36. Deb says: May 15, 2012 2:13 PM

    fcmlefty1 says:

    That list is all of the schools besides Boise that have won 2 BCS Bowl games. Do you think any of them are scheduling one offs? Not a chance. They all get one for one if not 2 for 1. By virtue of the 2 BCS bowl wins, Boise has indeed done it on the field.

    Besides that, even if I grant you the one off scenario, the big boys won’t pay it. They’ll pay Idaho 950K, but won’t pony up the same amount for Boise. Why? Fear of dropping a supposed “gimme”. Nothing more, nothing less.

    ————————————————-

    I have no idea what kind of negotiations are done to arrange OOC games. The other guy said the big schools won’t “pay” for a one-time game or agree to a home and home. To me, the automatic response was “Why should they pay to accommodate Boise?” And I still don’t see why the big schools should pay to make games with Boise happen no matter how many BCS bowls they’ve won.

    As for home and home … what’s in that for schools like Bama, LSU, Ohio State, or Michigan? Tiger Stadium holds just under 100,000 and the other three hold more than 100,000. So you’re talking about a home-and-home with a team that currently seats 37,000. Great, they’ve won two BCS games. So? Guess I’m missing something because I don’t understand what that has to do with it. And wasn’t Boise demanding some ridiculous amount of cash for home-and-homes?

    College football is about money. I’m talking business, and you guys are talking some kind of nonsense about teams being scared of losing gimmes. That plays well to the boys on the blog, but it’s not factoring into my comments.

  37. fcmlefty1 says: May 15, 2012 2:41 PM

    General rule of thumb: Boise first asks for a home and home. They feel they’ve earned it, and as my list pointed out, they are indeed in select company with thier on-field accomplishments in the BCS era. Thats all we can really go on, since thats when Boise joined the FBS. 99% of the time, that offer is rejected. Basically, only the Oregon schools and BYU have/will schedule them that way.

    Boise then essentially asks for the standard payday for a one off – close to 1 million. Again, 99% of the time, they are rejected. But then same opossing school will pay the exact same thing to Idaho to come in.

    In theory, the cost to bring Idaho or Boise State in for a one off is exactly the same. They relatively are within shouting distance of each other.

    But anybody with an objective view knows what the difference is – If you bring Idaho in, you are buying a 45-3 victory. If you bring Boise in, you have to explain a million dollar defeat to your fan base and athletic director.

  38. Deb says: May 15, 2012 3:09 PM

    @fmclefty …

    I really don’t know how all this works, so bear with me.

    Is the standard payday always the same for both teams? Seems like teams that draw a big TV audience would command more money. How do they decide where a one-off will be played?

    Yes, I understand your point about Idaho. But do you know a team that specifically turned down Boise yet accepted Idaho?

    This may seem an off-the-wall question, but do you think Boise would be taken more seriously if they played on a normal field? Personally, I have a real problem with the blue thing. Just wondering if you think the powers of college football view them as kind of a cartoon school because of that.

    If what you’re saying is true, Boise will never get real credibility as long as they play in a low-rent conference. They have to rely too much on the benevolence of OOC schools that have their own agendas to worry about. If BSU is ever to become a dominant force, they need to move into the Big 12 or Pac 12. But they don’t really have anything to offer other than football. That’s why this whole thing is so messed up. You’ve got these schools trying to move up on the basis of football alone, without beefing up their other sports or academics. The whole thing just seems like a big mess, and you have to draw a line somewhere.

  39. fcmlefty1 says: May 15, 2012 4:15 PM

    “Yes, I understand your point about Idaho. But do you know a team that specifically turned down Boise yet accepted Idaho?”

    Nebraska and Boise couldn’t come to an agreement. Nebraska wanted a 1 off or a 2 for 1. They subsequently couldn’t come to an agreement on the cash payout for the one off. Nebraska then paid Idaho 50k less to come to Lincoln. I think we’ll agree that the 50k is chump change in the grand scheme of things. It all boiled down to Nebraska not being willing to pay for a game they might possibly lose.

    “This may seem an off-the-wall question, but do you think Boise would be taken more seriously if they played on a normal field? Personally, I have a real problem with the blue thing. Just wondering if you think the powers of college football view them as kind of a cartoon school because of that.”

    I can definitely respect that point of view. But I don’t happen to agree with it. It’s thier “unique item”, comparable to the classic white Penn State helmets, comparable to long time rivalry trophys linked to two schools, etc.

    And yes, Boise is in a tough spot, as thier football program’s rise far outpaces any other sport or acedemic program they offer. Love em or hate em, what they’ve done in 13 short seasons is absurd.

  40. Deb says: May 15, 2012 4:48 PM

    @fmclefty …

    That could be the case with Nebraska. But let’s be fair. With no playoffs and one loss potentially taking you out of title contention, it would be stupid for any team to deliberately place more roadblocks into their schedules than necessary. Teams from the big four conferences have to play difficult in-conference opponents. Alabama will have to play two top-six teams within its own division. With things the way they are, why would schools go out and look for trouble in their OOC opponents. We’re opening the season with a neutral-site game against Michigan, which is a pretty tough pairing.

    As an aside, I see that LSU has an FCS opponent this year as Alabama did last year. I thought it was ridiculous when we did it and still do. But I wonder if as many people are going to mouth off about it now that the FCS is on LSU’s schedule as did when they were on Bama’s schedule. Somehow, I doubt it :cool:

  41. drwhd says: May 15, 2012 5:27 PM

    In light of the critical nature of much of what has been posted about Liberty’s interest in moving to the FBS, it is obvious that some facts need to be made known. The following is a collection of statements made from multiple sources available to all who are actually interested in knowing those facts.
    During the last six months, Liberty University has worked with Carr Sports Consulting, LLC, to conduct an exhaustive analysis of its athletics and University programs. Carr Sports Consulting has been doing this kind of thing for over 2 decades for multiple colleges and universities and its work is respected.

    According to Carr: “The expansive FBS Feasibility study examined all facets of the University to see if Liberty University is capable of meeting the demands of competing at the highest level of NCAA Division I competition.”
    “There’s really been no school more prepared for its major athletics initiative than Liberty and Liberty is prepared in every sense of the word for this move,” said Bill Carr, the head of the consulting group that for the past six months, has looked at every aspect of Liberty’s athletic department. “From Title IX, financial, facilities, operating procedures, personnel, salaries, scholarships, every aspect, policies and procedures of how you do business as a Division One program. You have to look at your compliance program, the strength and conditioning program marketing and promotion, radio and television, business office operations, game management of events.”
    LU Athletics director Jeff Barber added, “Of all the schools that do a feasibility study, it’s about 50-50: 50% of them hear ‘yes’ and the other 50 hear ‘no.'”
    To summarize, this decision has not been made lightly, it has been cautiously and properly researched. It has been reviewed by independent, qualified, reputable professionals and their recommendation was to make the move.
    Now, we all know that ‘arm-chair’ quarterbacks consider themselves to be “the experts in all matters football” and will question even those who are actually qualified to make such endorsements. Like the rest of us, the small-minded are able to hold any opinion they wish. But some college football fans in the general public are actually interested in doing more than spout negatives or hurl slanders. They are interested in knowing why Liberty made such a decision. Those fair-minded folk are now informed.
    Clearly critics, whether legitimate or not, will spout their slurs and slanders. However, if one is going to venture an opinion of any real worth, it is necessary to have adequate information. Otherwise you risk appearing as ignorant as your opinions. The facts are that the professionals who research these things concluded that Liberty has what it takes to make this bold step. Surely, considering the fact that they have done it in only 41 years suggests there is more justification for admiration than criticism.
    Don’t be led astray by those who say, “Don’t confuse me with contrary facts, my mind is made up.” Such people are often wrong despite the fact that they are rarely in doubt. For the rest, however, it is good to know that Liberty is not being as foolhardy as some might suggest. Is this decision ambitious? Without doubt! But shouldn’t we celebrate those brave enough to pursue an ambitious vision even when that vision faces such obstacles as deficits, detractors, discouragement and discomfort? Isn’t it a good thing that we can celebrate the fact that visions are still being realized in this nation?

  42. Deb says: May 15, 2012 6:07 PM

    @drwhd …

    Thank you for quoting from Liberty University’s self-congratulatory press release.

    http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/5/prweb9502363.htm

    When you refer to the material supplied by an organization’s own public relations department, that is considered neither research nor objective. Nor brave.

    In quoting verbatim from the press release, you noted that Liberty has “worked with” Carr Sports Consulting. Another way to put that might be that they, um, paid Carr Sports Consulting to conduct this research on their behalf. But far be it for me to suggest that Carr Consulting isn’t exactly the unbiased, independent professional you’ve suggested. Rather it is a consulting firm in Liberty’s employ. I’d never want to rain on your celebration of the fact that visions are still being realized in this nation.

    Believe it or not, even when they disagree with yours, some of us small-minded petty little people have done a little research and do have a legitimate basis for our opinions. And in this glorious, visionary nation, we’re still entitled to present them. Isn’t it a good thing that what happens to Liberty, one way or the other, won’t be decided by our posts? And any future success they have competing for a championship will be decided in the objective environment of the football field. Good luck to them competing at this level.

  43. drwhd says: May 15, 2012 7:18 PM

    I will attempt to pass on your well-wishes.

  44. acieu says: May 15, 2012 8:18 PM

    WWJD

  45. Deb says: May 15, 2012 8:44 PM

    Thank you :)

  46. dmcgrann says: May 16, 2012 12:04 AM

    “WWJD”? If you mean by that “What would Jerry (Falwell, Jr.) Do”, it will be “Move to the BCS”, just like the “vision” that his Dad had when founding Liberty University. I do love the way LU can “put out the call” to their students, alumni, and sycophants to visit each and every sports forum to counter any “negativity” about dear old Liberty.

    I have good friends that have graduated from and attend Liberty. I don’t think it’s my place to criticize folks for their faith or anything, because it’s none of my business, and Liberty seems to serve a purpose that overall helps the “public good”, though I reserve the right to disagree with their methods and motives. But, knocking Liberty completely out of the equation, how can anyone think it’s a good idea to move up into BCS right now?

    Charlotte is trying to jump to the BCS before they’ve even established a team. ODU wants to jump after two or three years at a high-level in the FCS. I just don’t get it. For the C-USA or Sun Belt TV money? Is there such a thing?

    VCU, with no football at all, announced today that their jupming from the CAA to the A10 on July 1, 2012. They’ll pay $200,000 entrance fee to the A10, a $750,000 exit fee to the CAA – and give up up to $5 million in deferred payments that are basically what they earned for their Final Four run.

    For basketball, folks. Things are getting crazy.

  47. drwhd says: May 16, 2012 10:42 AM

    Deb,

    In a final effort to calmly and reasonably point to facts about Liberty’s ability to enter into the FBS level, I refer you (and anyone else who might be interested) NOT to Liberty’s press release but to Carr Sports Associates web site, which can be found at carrsportsassociates.com. I refer you all to the testimonials page and the list of institutions for which Carr’s team have performed similar tasks.

    I ask only that you look at this impressive list and remember what Carr said, not what Liberty said, “There’s really been no school more prepared for its major athletics initiative than Liberty and Liberty is prepared in every sense of the word for this move.”

    Then, after reading all of that you still believe his statements are only hype, and are ungrounded, (as you previously implied) well . . . there’s not much point in trying any more.

  48. Deb says: May 16, 2012 1:40 PM

    @drwhd …

    Nowhere in this thread have I said anything about Liberty’s preparedness for a move to the FBS being hype. You were making a big to-do about your research, and I pointed out that it all came from Liberty’s press release. Beyond that, I have no feelings about Liberty one way or the other. I have long argued on this blog that that the FBS needs to be further divided and another division created–solely for football competition.

    Liberty’s preparedness to move up is irrelevant to my position. This situation is much bigger than one school and would require a complete overhaul of college football divisions. One school moving up won’t make any difference one way or another, so I meant what I said before. If that’s the direction Liberty chooses to take, good luck to them competing at this level. I think they’ll find that insurmountable–but again, I’m speaking solely of competing in college football, not of any other sport or any academic consideration.

  49. drwhd says: May 16, 2012 4:18 PM

    I appreciate the courage of your clarification. It shows great character.

  50. Deb says: May 16, 2012 5:33 PM

    Thank you for having the character to look at my posts in this thread to see my only concern has been a need to pare down the overcrowded FBS. Most people judge what’s they think is on others’ minds and remain wedded to that opinion, all evidence to the contrary.

  51. waynefontes says: May 17, 2012 9:58 AM

    A story about Liberty football is the most commented on story on CFT and has over 50 comments.

    Now I’ve seen it all. Somewhere in Hell, Jerry Falwell is looking for a coat to keep him warm since it’s now freezing.

    Liberty didn’t even win the Big South. They would be a doormat in the Southern Conference.
    At least Appalachian State has a decent resume.

  52. dmcgrann says: May 17, 2012 1:39 PM

    I’d agree with you that AppState has a better football resume thsn Liberty, but for all intents and purposes, they’re both equals in this story. Both want to go to the BCS level, but neither one has a conference invitation.

  53. drwhd says: May 17, 2012 9:43 PM

    Once again facts must get in the way of errant opinion. The following is a quote NOT from Liberty’s Website but from the Big South Conference website. It is taken directly from the History section:

    “In 2007, Liberty won the first of its four consecutive Big South football championships in record-breaking fashion just two years after finishing 1-10 overall.”

    Your perception of Liberty’s record is almost five years old. A lot happened in those five years. If you don’t like Liberty or the Falwells, that’s your business, but blatant error if not the way to make a point.

  54. drwhd says: May 17, 2012 10:01 PM

    BTW I just ran across the following in the Chicago Tribune:

    “Its football team competed as an independent FCS program for 14 years before joining the Big South in 2002. Liberty has won four out of the last five Big South football titles and has finished as a top 25-ranked FCS program the last four years.”

    I must confess I was even unaware of the FCS ranking stat.

    And to anticipate a possible comment, I do not suggest for a moment that any FBS conference is going to be a smooth ride for Liberty or any other FCS team seeking to make the jump. I just think there’s no reason not to be positive about it for Liberty or the conference in which they finally land.

  55. dmcgrann says: May 18, 2012 4:15 AM

    Well, it should be noted that Liberty was co-champion of the Big South for two of those four championships and that they’ve never participated in the FCS playoffs. The Big South wasn’t deemed worthy of an automatic bid to the playoffs until 2010, and Coastal Carolina beat out Liberty for the playoff spot.

  56. drwhd says: May 18, 2012 8:20 AM

    I acknowledge Liberty’s move to FBS is ambitious. I’ve already stated that. I also acknowledge that ambition MUST be a part of any successful sports program. But it is not foolhardy as some might suggest. Carr and Associates and other independent sources have made that point. The only sure thing at this point is that time will tell.

    Believe it or not, I even think fans ought to have a healthy bias for their teams and against others. It shows good loyalty. But if (and this is a principle not an accusation) that bias against Liberty is promoted by false information and motivated by a disagreement with the University’s political views, that is less than appropriate.

  57. bozosforall says: May 18, 2012 10:39 AM

    Deb says:
    May 15, 2012 1:55 PM
    bozosforall says:
    __
    The POINT is that they already DO have a seperate tier. It’s called the FCS and they don’t want to be a part of it, better shot at a title or not.

    And given that this is a free country, they should be allowed to make that choice, given that they have all qualified based upon the criteria set out by the powers-that-be. You, of all people (as a so-called journalist/journalism major), should be especially sensitive to the freedoms that we are entitled to enjoy as Americans.

    ===================================

    I’ve had about enough of your unnecessary snottiness. My journalism degree has nothing to do with this discussion. I have never said anything about being a sports journalist. God is infallible; journalists are not. You clearly believe you know everything about everything. My degree taught me writing and research skills, not the wisdom of the universe. And I missed the amendment in the Bill of Rights that guarantees football teams in the NCAA the freedom to join whatever division they choose regardless of their qualifications.

    We’re all stating our opinions here, and mine are as valid as yours. Yes, I’m well aware of the FCS, thank you. As I’ve said umpteen times, if these teams that are too small to successfully compete against the major programs of the FBS are unhappy with the FCS, perhaps they should create yet another tier between those two. You seem obsessed with whether I misquote you, but it doesn’t seem to bother you to persistently misquote me.

    __
    Deb…don’t cry. And your wrong assumption that I “know everything about everything” is one that I’ve never claimed on here or elsewhere for that matter. The only snottiness I see here is from arrogant posters such as yourself. Also, if you didn’t want your journalism degree used against you, you should have never brought it up in prior posts. As for the Bill of Rights, I never claimed that it guaranteed schools the right to join whatever division they chose to. The current NCAA rules governing what qualifications are necessary to be in D-1 do however. My condolences that you don’t have any wisdom of the universe, but this is a fact that could have easily been gleaned by using a bit of those research skills that you claim to have acquired at Missouri.

  58. bozosforall says: May 18, 2012 10:44 AM

    drwhd says:
    May 16, 2012 4:18 PM
    I appreciate the courage of your clarification. It shows great character.

    Deb says:
    May 16, 2012 5:33 PM
    Thank you for having the character to look at my posts in this thread to see my only concern has been a need to pare down the overcrowded FBS. Most people judge what’s they think is on others’ minds and remain wedded to that opinion, all evidence to the contrary.

    __
    GET A ROOM

  59. bozosforall says: May 18, 2012 10:53 AM

    dmcgrann says:
    May 18, 2012 4:15 AM
    Well, it should be noted that Liberty was co-champion of the Big South for two of those four championships and that they’ve never participated in the FCS playoffs. The Big South wasn’t deemed worthy of an automatic bid to the playoffs until 2010, and Coastal Carolina beat out Liberty for the playoff spot.

    __
    UCONN made the D1-AA playoff only once in their entire football history (winning no titles), yet they got an invitation to move to the Big East after only four years as a D1 Independent. Given that UCONN was also not a D1-AA powerhouse, Liberty should at least be allowed the same freedom to move up and given the same respect that UCONN was.

  60. Deb says: May 18, 2012 11:41 AM

    bozosforall, somehow I’m not surprised that you’d respond to good sportsmanship by screaming GET A ROOM. That’s the typical junior high response of the vulgar jerk.

    I brought up my journalism degree in another context and never mentioned it in this discussion. But I’m proud of it and it’s served me well. If you want to ridicule my education because you aren’t mature enough to make your argument on its merits, go ahead.

    And when you talk about the rights a football team has in terms of the rights we all have as Americans, you are implying Constitutional guarantee of membership in the FBS. If you don’t want your words used against you, try being less hyperbolic … if that’s possible.

    Oh, and yippee for UCONN. They finished 2011 ranked 76 on Sagarin and 79 on Congrove (the only final polls I could find that went up that high). My argument, if you were intelligent enough to comprehend it–obviously you’re not–is that there are too many teams in the FBS to genuinely be competitive. Therefore, yet another division should be created that would allow more teams to compete for real championships. What I’m advocating is in the best interest of teams like UCONN, genius. But it’s always easier for some people to behave like rabid dogs toward ideas they don’t understand than to engage their (pea) brains and discuss concepts rationally.

  61. drwhd says: May 18, 2012 2:24 PM

    Deb

    In regard to the matter of sportsmanship, I am in full agreement with you re: your bozo response. Y0u Go Girl.

  62. bozosforall says: May 18, 2012 5:10 PM

    Deb says:
    May 18, 2012 11:41 AM
    bozosforall, somehow I’m not surprised that you’d respond to good sportsmanship by screaming GET A ROOM. That’s the typical junior high response of the vulgar jerk.

    I brought up my journalism degree in another context and never mentioned it in this discussion. But I’m proud of it and it’s served me well. If you want to ridicule my education because you aren’t mature enough to make your argument on its merits, go ahead.

    And when you talk about the rights a football team has in terms of the rights we all have as Americans, you are implying Constitutional guarantee of membership in the FBS. If you don’t want your words used against you, try being less hyperbolic … if that’s possible.

    Oh, and yippee for UCONN. They finished 2011 ranked 76 on Sagarin and 79 on Congrove (the only final polls I could find that went up that high). My argument, if you were intelligent enough to comprehend it–obviously you’re not–is that there are too many teams in the FBS to genuinely be competitive. Therefore, yet another division should be created that would allow more teams to compete for real championships. What I’m advocating is in the best interest of teams like UCONN, genius. But it’s always easier for some people to behave like rabid dogs toward ideas they don’t understand than to engage their (pea) brains and discuss concepts rationally.

    __
    Again. don’t cry because I made a little joke at your expense.

    And I wasn’t ridiculing your education in the least (in fact, I applaud you for getting your education, as everyone should strive to get theirs as well)…merely making a point that, of all people, you should be a bit more sensitive as to the freedoms that we all enjoy in the US.

    As for comparing the right of Americans, I never implied that any school had a Constitutional right to be in the FBS. What I said was that, absent any rules that prohibit a school from being in the FBS (and so far there aren’t any rules prohibiting any of the current FBS members from being in that division), that they have the right to be there (assuming that they continue to qualify based upon the current criteria, which they all currently do). And if you really want to police hyperbole on this blog, you could spend all day and night, 24-7-365, doing just that if you were so inclined. Have fun with that.

    I disagree with your argument that creating another division is “in the best interest” of those schools that you deem inferior to be in D1. My argument is that if they want to be in D1 and qualify under the rules, then THAT is what is in those schools’ best interests. THEY and they alone have the right to decide (again, as long as they qualify to be in D-1) what is in their best interests. Obviously, YOU are the one who is lacking in the intelligence to comprehend what I am saying. IF and ONLY IF, the NCAA decides to change the criteria as to what qualifies a school to be in D-1 would I change my stance on this issue. But UNTIL they do, every school that qualifies should be included if they choose to be. That has always been the crux of my argument, not that the division should be larger or smaller. However, unless and until the rules change, EVERY team that qualifies should be allowed to be in a conference where they can compete for a conference title that leads to a spot in a playoff (preferably 12 to 16 teams). So, lose the holier-than-thou attitude, because you aren’t the only one here with an advanced degree…not by a long shot.

  63. Deb says: May 18, 2012 6:03 PM

    @bozosforall …

    I don’t have a holier-than-thou attitude. I simply write in complete sentences and offer coherent arguments, which a lot of people on this blog have interpreted as me being holier than thou. If you notice, I don’t correct other people’s spelling unless they attack me on that issue. I don’t ridicule other people for their incoherence unless they attack me first. The reason I write in complete sentences is because I’ve been writing daily for years and I’m a fast, fairly accurate typist whose thought processes flow that way from habit–not because I’m trying to “sound” smart. It would take me longer to stop and think in today’s common text abbreviations than to just type it out.

    Most of what I’ve revealed about myself on these blogs was in an attempt to defend myself from someone else’s attacks. I revealed my journalism degree because people were attacking me as a frontrunner because I’m a Bama fan who went to Mizzou–so I explained that I grew up a Bama fan and went to Mizzou because they have a great journalism program. I didn’t reveal that to brag. I revealed I’m a rape survivor because I’d researched Roethlisberger’s legal cases and said the evidence showed no rapes occurred. A woman came on and started screaming at me about what kind of person would excuse a rapist. I got upset and spit out that I was a rape survivor–somethat that, until then, I’d never discussed except with a trauma therapist years after the fact.

    I am what I am. When my quarterback is accused of rape, because of my history, that’s going to be upsetting enough to me that I’m going to be driven to find out all I can about it. And because I have a journalism degree and family members who are criminal defense attorneys, I’m going to be able to find out more than most. I’m a literate person, so my arguments are going to read well even if I’m wrong. I’ve been to hell and back in my life–rape survivor, three-time cancer survivor, four years working in a guerilla war zone. So I’m not going to run when you guys smart off to me on a blog. I’m going to give the smack right back. If you’re an LSU fan continually posting that Les is a saint and Saban is a liar, then heck yeah, at some point, I’m going to post a youtube clip of Les lying through his teeth.

    I get that people can’t handle that. I get that it makes me a pariah. I get that I’ve made a lot of mistakes. And I get that defending myself–sometimes to an over-the-top degree has cost me some friends who clearly didn’t have much character to begin with. But the smartest people I’ve ever known didn’t have college degrees. And I’ve never implied that a degree makes you the smartest person in the room. That’s all in your head.

  64. drwhd says: May 18, 2012 6:18 PM

    Deb,

    While I may not be the brightest bulb in the chandelier, I believe bozosforall is trying to apologize. If that is correct, and even if it’s not, I believe you can safely say you’ve made your point.

    Again, you go girl!!!

  65. Deb says: May 18, 2012 6:56 PM

    @drwhd …

    Thank you!

    My ideas for another football division may be all wet. bozosforall is right about one thing: It doesn’t have any impact on me if more teams move up to the FBS. Being in the SEC will ensure Alabama a seat at the table as long as they’re winning. I just find the large number of teams and conferences chaotic and unmanageable. The NFL and its 32 teams are definitely more “home” for me. (I’m vehemently opposed to further NFL expansion, too, though for different reasons.)

    In the NFL, although some teams seem to be perennial also-rans, a new season is a clean slate with every team having the potential to make the 12-team playoffs. In the FBS, we know the majority of member teams will never play for a championship. So why go fishing if you know in advance the lake is empty? That’s why I support coming up with another division. I just want more lakes stocked with more fish so everyone has a shot a making a catch.

  66. waynefontes says: May 18, 2012 8:11 PM

    dmcgrann says:
    May 18, 2012 4:15 AM
    Well, it should be noted that Liberty was co-champion of the Big South for two of those four championships and that they’ve never participated in the FCS playoffs. The Big South wasn’t deemed worthy of an automatic bid to the playoffs until 2010, and Coastal Carolina beat out Liberty for the playoff spot.

    ————————————————–

    Having lived in Myrtle Beach for 8 years, I must admit I’m biased for Coastal Carolina ^^

    I gave your comments a thumbs up since you make a valid point without getting petty, which isn’t too common on CFT/PFT.

  67. waynefontes says: May 18, 2012 8:16 PM

    drwhd says:
    May 17, 2012 9:43 PM
    Once again facts must get in the way of errant opinion. The following is a quote NOT from Liberty’s Website but from the Big South Conference website. It is taken directly from the History section:

    “In 2007, Liberty won the first of its four consecutive Big South football championships in record-breaking fashion just two years after finishing 1-10 overall.”

    Your perception of Liberty’s record is almost five years old. A lot happened in those five years. If you don’t like Liberty or the Falwells, that’s your business, but blatant error if not the way to make a point.

    ————————————————–

    Well, I have lived in Seoul the last four years. That’s no excuse – if I bash, I should be accurate -it is harder to follow the Big South in Korea.

    You’re right, and I’m wrong. I’ll own up to it.

  68. dmcgrann says: May 18, 2012 8:28 PM

    Bozosforall, UConn had a big leg up over any of these other schools that are trying to get into the FBS. They were already a member of a FBS conference, and, at that time, an AQ one at that.

    Deb, I don’t think that another level of football is necessary. We’ve already got two D-1 levels that most people don’t understand (or even want to understand), FBS and FCS. The fact that folks don’t understand the difference is underscored by folks like our happy hosts, who continue to use the obsolete terms, 1-A and 1-AA, and by folks who don’t know the difference between D-1 FCS and D-2.

    I’ll be the first to admit that I get more than a little ticked off when I see what happened to former D-1 football schools back in the 1980’s and 1990’s (one of which was my alma mater, Richmond). First there was a requirement on stadium size alone. Then, quickly, it was changed to paid attendance, plus number of sports. My guys (UofR) chose the FCS route and are happy, though you never know how things might change. It was the right thing to do, even given our history, which as not too shabby at the time compared to UVA and VT (Richmond was the first Virginia school to win a bowl game. That was the ’68 Tangerine, now the Capital One)

    I don’t get the seeming rush to FBS by some schools. I think it has an enormous opportunity to bite them back. Charlotte has never, ever even had a football practice. They’re working on a stadium that will seat 15,300 – they need an average paid attendance over a rolling two year period of 15,000 to become FBS. ODU has a stadium that seats just shy of 20,000. Both schools say they want to expand their stadiums, but how does that play in Hattiesburg or Tulsa? Every other year they take a haircut on the gate?

    As far as our immediate subject, Liberty, is concerned, I have no doubt that they will do whatever it takes monetarily to get to FBS level. It’s what Falwell, Sr. wanted, and he wasn’t afraid to say so. Will they get an invite? A good question, I think.

    I believe most of the schools that want to move up are seeing “big bowl payoffs” to the exclusion of everything else. I think that’s very short-sighted. Some sort of playoff is coming, and the SEC and Big 12 have announced a deal for a couple of bowls – I see minor bowls going out of business, or with drastically lower payouts.

  69. dmcgrann says: May 18, 2012 8:42 PM

    Waynefontes, thanks for the thumbs up, thought I hate toi have it come because of Coastal Carolina! :)

    Does anyone know what happens when a FBS school DOESN’T make the 15,000 average attendance over a rolling two-year period> Like, maybe Bawling Green?

  70. Deb says: May 18, 2012 10:09 PM

    @dmcgrann …

    Ouch! Can’t speak for our hosts, but I’m terrible about using Div-IA. It’s only since I’ve been on this thread that I’ve started regularly using FBS. Sorry about that.

    To be honest, I’m a throwback when it comes to college ball … probably more comfortable with the history of the sport than the current reality. Growing up I was equally enamored with the college and pro games, but somewhere along the way became much more invested in the pros. Still watched Bama, but have only really gotten back into the college game overall in the last few years–and I still just follow the top-ranked teams/conferences. When bozosforall mentioned UCONN and Duke, I genuinely thought he was talking about basketball.

    I just can’t wrap my head around why teams would want to play in a league where they will never, never compete for a championship. It’s like being the 85-year-old who always wanted to run the New York marathon just to say you did. That’s inspiring. Except you’re not 85. And you’ll be running it every year for generations. just to say you did with no hope of ever winning because there are too many competitors and you’re never going to be good enough. Why not play where you have at least a hope of winning? I don’t get it.

  71. John Taylor says: May 18, 2012 10:12 PM

    dmcgrann: I will continue to use 1-A and 1-AA, thank you very much. If you don’t like the use of the obsolete terms, there are many, many websites who’ve swallowed that NCAA nomenclature you can frequent.

  72. drwhd says: May 18, 2012 11:26 PM

    May 18, 2012 8:16 PM

    drwhd says:
    May 17, 2012 9:43 PM
    Once again facts must get in the way of errant opinion. The following is a quote NOT from Liberty’s Website but from the Big South Conference website. It is taken directly from the History section:

    “In 2007, Liberty won the first of its four consecutive Big South football championships in record-breaking fashion just two years after finishing 1-10 overall.”

    Your perception of Liberty’s record is almost five years old. A lot happened in those five years. If you don’t like Liberty or the Falwells, that’s your business, but blatant error if not the way to make a point.

    ————————————————–

    Well, I have lived in Seoul the last four years. That’s no excuse – if I bash, I should be accurate -it is harder to follow the Big South in Korea.

    You’re right, and I’m wrong. I’ll own up to it.

    ____________

    @waynefontes

    I may not always agree with you my friend but I do respect you. I am often wrong and find admitting it is tough. You are re-instating my faith in bloggers.

    I hope goes well for you in Seoul

  73. chiefagc5675 says: May 20, 2012 8:53 PM

    Did God approve of this? Is he going to help these republican wusses man up or will Liberty be going black now?

  74. drwhd says: May 21, 2012 8:56 AM

    chiefagc5675 says: May 20, 2012 8:53 PM

    Did God approve of this? Is he going to help these republican wusses man up or will Liberty be going black now?
    —————

    The depth of intellect, maturity and insight reflected in this statement is simply mind-boggling! What a stellar example sportsmanship — to say nothing of its contribution to this discussion about sports! Thanks chief for setting the bar so high!

  75. bozosforall says: May 21, 2012 8:34 PM

    drwhd says:
    May 18, 2012 6:18 PM
    Deb,

    While I may not be the brightest bulb in the chandelier, I believe bozosforall is trying to apologize. If that is correct, and even if it’s not, I believe you can safely say you’ve made your point.

    __
    Not in the least. And I see that my big response to Deb was deleted…I won’t be typing it back in again. Suffice it to say, that if the 85-year old wants to run the marathon, then regardless of whether or not he will ever win, he should be allowed to run it as long as he is willing to pay the price.

  76. drwhd says: May 22, 2012 7:09 AM

    While bozo’s analogy is almost a ‘left-handed’ affirmation, his point is still a good one. If Liberty, or any school, goes through the feasibility study with a reputable service like Carr and Associates and it is determined that they meet the qualifications for a move up, in all areas, then they should be given an opportunity. If this is not agreeable to those who are already in the FBS, then maybe someone should consider changing the qualifications for entry or declare a moratorium or realign or something else. The University that has done its homework and met the criteria is not the problem. Instead, it might be the criteria. In other words, Bozo’s 85 year old would need to meet higher standards before being able to compete. Don’t blame the competitor, look at the standards.

  77. jayteah says: Sep 1, 2012 12:08 AM

    I don’t think most of you realize how big Liberty really is , it has 14,000 0n campus students and about 60,000 online students , it’s total enrollment is larger than Ohio State’s ,,,lol. The campus here is enormous I live right next door . This is not your average school and it’s been jumping through all the major hoops to have a major football team . Actually without the online students Liberty is bigger than Stanford University another Private University . They just recently have completed the first part of building a very large stadium . The Medical School will start next year beside the Law school already here . This aint no small little college , everytime someone actually sees it they say WOW!! They Can’t believe the size . .

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