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Bolden, Fortt depart Penn State as well

Purdue v Penn State Getty Images

Though Penn State quarterback Rob Bolden and linebacker Khairi Fortt were connected to transfers to LSU and Cal, respectively, nothing was confirmed officially on the matters as of last night.

Consider that changed.

Fortt confirmed to Dave Ruden of the Stamford Advocate that he would be transferring to the Golden Bears, perhaps as soon as Sunday.

“Coach O’Brien and his staff have brought a whole new energy. It has been a great 7 months,” Fortt told Ruden.  They have improved the intensity a lot. It’s just unfortunate I have a different route I have to take. This is no disrespect to them or a reflection on Coach O’Brien.”

Fortt’s father also confirmed the move to ESPN’s Joe Schad. Fortt played in every game for the Nittany Lions last year and had 33 tackles, 6 tackles for loss and 2.5 sacks.

“When the NCAA gave Khairi the opportunity to transfer in this instance, he and his family decided to take a look at our program,” Cal coach Jeff Tedford said in a prepared statement. “We are excited to welcome him to the Cal family.”

Likewise, Bolden was at LSU today, Les Miles confirmed in a press conference. The one-time starter for PSU has been looking into a transfer long before the NCAA handed down sanctions on the athletic program.

The junior will have two years of eligibility remaining.

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62 Responses to “Bolden, Fortt depart Penn State as well”
  1. mydixienormus says: Aug 1, 2012 2:04 PM

    Like rats swarming off a sinking ship…

  2. mgmac says: Aug 1, 2012 2:13 PM

    I’d be leaving if I were a psu football player. no use staying with pedophile state u

  3. tommy57 says: Aug 1, 2012 2:21 PM

    I understand and share the dissapointment of many PSU supporters at these departures, and we won’t know the full extent of the damage until the exodus concludes. Honestly, I don’t blame the players, who each have their own individual reasons for leaving, but to be fair, the reputation of PSU as a whole is severely tainted now and will be for a very long time. Still, the NCAA logic is difficult to follow. NCAA apparently believes that sanctions against an entire athletic program are the best method to mete out punishment and provide an incentive against future infractions. Then, current players are permitted to transfer without penalty because ‘they’ did nothing wrong. OK, the current, blameless players depart, leaving the fans and supporters as what? They are also blameless, but will suffer the consequences of the actions of others. Indeed, and I accept it is taboo to discuss the money, but the other athletic programs that depend on funding from the football program (also blameless) also suffer. The current blameless players can transfer without penalty but the rest of us are left to fend for ourselves. I guess the non-scholarship-athletes and students remaining could also transfer, but that’s a far different process and involves a standard application and selection process; those remaining do not have the same advantages as the athletes. AND NONE OF THIS IMPACTS AT ALL THOSE WHO ARE BLAMEWORTHY – GRAHAM SPANIER, TIM CURLEY OR GARY SCHULTZ.

  4. mydixienormus says: Aug 1, 2012 2:23 PM

    Wow tommy57. Ever heard of the Enter key?

    Might try using it every so often.

  5. yeti47 says: Aug 1, 2012 2:40 PM

    Best of luck to those that have transferred to other schools. I wish them well. So far only 6..not the mass exodus that was predicted.

  6. houndofthebaskervols says: Aug 1, 2012 2:46 PM

    Cal picks up a pretty decent linebacker, and Les picks up somebody to run his scout team. Bravo!

  7. eyeh8goodell says: Aug 1, 2012 2:53 PM

    Tommy57,

    NCAA sanctions ALWAYS affect the entire program. That’s how it always works, and it’s just as fair now as it was when the programs at USC or Ohio State were harmed over a few bad apples. When one or a few mess up, it’s the collective that pays. And in this case, the program needs to be taken down a few pegs for what was allowed to happen there to protect The Program.

  8. mountaineer50415 says: Aug 1, 2012 2:55 PM

    tommy57

    Do you really believe that the NCAA has any power over Spanier, Curley, Graham, or Schultz?
    If you do I hate to tell you that he do not. The courts will have to take care of them as they did the scumbag, Sandusky.
    The only power the NCAA has is over individual universties. They did the only thing they could do. The fact that they did not spend thousands of dollars interviewing people who had been interviewed over and over ad nauseam is commendable. Would you have them go on and on for years and then give Penn St. the penalties they just gave them? How would that have been beneficial? Then there would have been no one on the team from the Sandusky era.
    It is time to move on as best as you can. The past can not be changed, but, the future can be about a University that moved forward with class. Being from a neighboring state, I hope Penn St. comes back better than before. It is impossible to do that with those involved on your backs.
    Penn St. needs to make sure no one who covered up for Sandusky is allowed on the property.

  9. thetooloftools says: Aug 1, 2012 2:58 PM

    Notice how many of those players speaking for the team are players who have had relative play for Penn State? Zordich ect… nice try guys but you can’t leave or you families would disown you. These other players should just walk away unless nobody wants them. Penn State sill has many legal trials and the “hot mess” is not going to go away for a long time. Stop with that stupid “Restore The Roar” and “True Penn Staters” crap. Your just trying not act giddy from not losing any home games.Your disgusting.

  10. newlydead says: Aug 1, 2012 2:58 PM

    Fortt is a tough loss, he was a solid LB and will be missed. good luck at Cal.

    Bolden on the other hand has been trying to transfer since last year i believe, the only thing the “scandal” did was finally give him his out …. and to be honest, he want coming off the bench this year to play anyway unless there were injuries and even then i’d feel better putting another RB back there and running the wildcat every play. Bolden is not a top level QB, not even a mid-level QB

  11. psublueandwhite says: Aug 1, 2012 3:00 PM

    Other than Silas Redd, no one leaving so far will be really missed or irreplaceable.

  12. rcbn says: Aug 1, 2012 3:05 PM

    They must be overage for Penn State!

  13. iloveflorio says: Aug 1, 2012 3:12 PM

    Losing bolden is like losing the clap, good bye and good riddance!! He was recruited by miles to get the team gpa up!

  14. fetchezlavache says: Aug 1, 2012 3:15 PM

    Does anyone know if there is a time limit on when existing players can transfer? For instance, could a current Sophomore play this year at State and then decide to transfer at this time year? Or do they lose their right to freely transfer without sitting out a year after this season is completed?

  15. ohioirishfan says: Aug 1, 2012 3:22 PM

    As a Notre Dame fan I do feel terrible for the PSU alumni, fans and players. They had nothing to do with what that sick SOB Sandusky did nor were they involved in the poor decisions made by the president, AD and coach Paterno.

    I just wish the current players that were and currently are considering leaving would consider loyalty to their teammates, fans and their university. PSU does still offer a great education.

  16. lucidsportsfan says: Aug 1, 2012 3:23 PM

    I think it’s an unwise move for all these guys to leave. In the wake of the scandal, there is no way they’ll get any more exposure anywhere else that at PSU. http://www.lucidsportsfan.com/2012_07_29_archive.html#3224417643032832305

  17. blastfurnaceknows says: Aug 1, 2012 3:38 PM

    tommy57,

    What you and some others are inexplicably missing is that the NCAA set out to force Penn St., the institution and its community, to abdicate their god-complex for their college football program. It was that, as much as anything else, that allowed those who were “blameworthy” in the cover-up of a child rape predator to think for one second that they could actually get away with it forever or that somehow it was justified when weighed against the negative publicity disclosure may have generated.

    And, incidentally, you neglected to include the name Paterno in your list of the “blameworthy.” I will assume that was just an oversight and that you, nor anyone else, can take the position that he was not culpable in the cover-up and complicit in the rape of children by his former assistant coach. If it wasn’t an oversight, then I guess that nothing can derail some people’s long-held worship fetish.

    In short, the NCAA is punishing precisely those it intended to – the PSU fan base, culture, school and community. After all, they created the false idol Paterno, not the current players or incoming recruits. I thought the death penalty was the way to go anyway, because only that would have forced that community to focus on something else for awhile. It seems to me that the NCAA did everything it could to avoid implementation of it though and PSU probably has the Big 10 to thank for that.

  18. mungman69 says: Aug 1, 2012 3:59 PM

    I can’t stop thinking about the kids that were RAPED. I can’t stop thinking about the coverup that allowed these RAPES to continue. I can’t stop thinking about the people who thought that they were above the law. PSU fans seem to think only about football, they just don’t get it.

  19. tommy57 says: Aug 1, 2012 4:03 PM

    @eyeh8goodell “NCAA sanctions ALWAYS affect the entire program. That’s how it always works, and it’s just as fair now as it was when the programs at USC or Ohio State were harmed over a few bad apples. ”

    Why USC or OSU supporters failed to comment on the fairness of NCAA shotgun-punnishment is not my responsibility. To me, it’s not a fair method of repremand and so long as we do nothing, then noting will change. To me, this process and policy needs to change.

  20. tommy57 says: Aug 1, 2012 4:11 PM

    @blastfurnaceknows “What you and some others are inexplicably missing is that the NCAA set out to force Penn St., the institution and its community, to abdicate their god-complex for their college football program. ”

    Certainly for me, but perhaps others as well, it’s this type of thinking that bothers me most. Was football important at PSU, absolutely, but not more so than other major Division I schools. If you have (or would) spend some time at the University Park campus, you’d see that PSU is much, much more than the football program. Was Joe Paterno a ‘big man on campus?’ you bet he was, but only because we didn’t know then what we know now. Believe me, he would now be a pariah today to the vast majority. PSU is a good school and the good people there are taking an undeserved beating.

  21. omniusprime says: Aug 1, 2012 4:11 PM

    Good to see more football players bailing out on Pedophile State. Just because there hasn’t been a mass exodus so early on don’t believe these are the only ones stupid enough to stay at Hades Valley. Glad to see Cal pick up a good player.

  22. psunick says: Aug 1, 2012 4:15 PM

    If you cannot stop thinking about RAPE, mung, you should make an appointment to see a professional.

  23. tommy57 says: Aug 1, 2012 4:17 PM

    For those who somehow believe that PSU supporters are wrong in not accepting the NCAA ruling, that somehow the NCAA ruling is the correct response, I offer the following:

    If the NCAA methodology of punishing wrongdoing is effective, way not apply it to general law enforcement as well? Why not lock-up entire families when one member of the family is found guilty of a crime? This would certainly reinforce the NCAA message that you are, indeed, your brother’s keeper. If, as I guess many believe, NCAA shotgun-link sanctions are effective, why not expand this effective program to better society as a whole? As the NCAA apparently believes that it doesn’t really matter that those impacted by the sanctions did nothing wrong but must share in the punishment, so, too would the family members suffer the same fate, but who really cares? Certainly, the family members are probably guilty of either knowing about the individual criminal mindset or, at a minimum, failed to ensure the family member obeyed the law. That’s the NCAA way, isn’t it? I’m confident NCAA has empirical evidence that such a reprimand system does indeed work, so way not expand it?

    Does this idea have merit? Of course not, but it’s just as silly to bileve such actions are effective or useful or fair in the current method.

  24. newlydead says: Aug 1, 2012 4:35 PM

    @mungman69

    since the article is about football players transferring the comments will be focused on the players and the transferring. you are the only on who can seem to stop thinking about rape which in all honesty should make your neighbors think twice about living near you.

  25. unclemoobaa1911 says: Aug 1, 2012 4:37 PM

    @mungman69 Why wouldnt a PSU fan think about football? PSU fans did not molest any young boys, PSU fans did not cover the molesting of young boys up. The sterotype that the media has cast on PSU fans, alumni, faculty, students and athletes is a tragedy in its self. As a resident of Happy Valley for 32 years i can assure you that PSU fans DO NOT condone child molestation or the enabling of child molesters. Why its true that 95% of Happy Valley held Joe Paterno in a higher regard than most human beings, that does not make us guilty or sick people. Notice i said held in high regard, because 95% of Happy Valley is now disgusted by Joe Paterno. Everything we were led to believe for so many years turned out to be a sham, and because of the lack of testicular (maybe not the best choice of words) fortitude by 5 men, not only were innocent boys molested but an entire university, a town, a community was blindsided by a terrible disgusting fact that Joe Paterno was not the man so many of us looked up too. But that argument can and will go on for a long long time. What im trying to say is, we still have a football team at Penn State, with a bunch of players that did nothing wrong, a new coaching staff that did nothing wrong, and an awesome fanbase that did nothing wrong, so why cant we talk about football. Like it or not Penn State will go on, Penn State football will be on tv, Beaver Stadium will be full of screaming fans and if that pisses you off maybe you should watch underwater baskett weaving on ESPN8. And i know this entire rant was about football, but dont ever think that PSU fans dont think of or pray for the victims, because we do. Dont believe everything in the media.

  26. stairwayto7 says: Aug 1, 2012 4:41 PM

    Wow, now the trolls are saying they are getting great players when last season they had no idea who these guys were! I would like to see what classes these bums take at their new schools!

  27. florida727 says: Aug 1, 2012 4:44 PM

    “tommy57″, I read your post. Actually, that’s not true. I read it TWICE. I certainly empathize with your plight as fans of Penn State. I really do. But you’re missing one point, and I think it’s an important one. The fans, the other students, the faculty, everyone else associated with PSU is not entirely (as you put it) ‘blameless’.

    The opposite of course would mean they’re ‘responsible’. But that’s not true either. Not entirely. It needs to be emphasized that I mean not DIRECTLY responsible. A culture was created, and the fans, the administration, etc., played a role in creating that culture.

    Blameless? Probably not. Responsible? Maybe indirectly. One thing that’s undeniable is that as long as Penn State supporters continue to try to justify being Penn State supporters, nothing will get accomplished.

    a) you don’t have to justify being a Penn State fan any more than I have to justify being a Florida fan (we have our own messes to deal with), but b) you do have to acknowledge you were deceived, and disappointed, by people in positions of power that very terribly misused that power when they could have taken the proverbial high road. You, and every other Penn State fan, were deceived, through no fault of you own, by people you trusted. That’s a hurt that’s hard to overcome. Hope you can though. Penn State fans don’t need to be ‘ashamed’ of being Penn State fans. But they do need to accept the reality of what happened. That’s the only way to move forward.

  28. florida727 says: Aug 1, 2012 4:47 PM

    “unclemoo…”, I should have read your post before submitting mine. Well said. Thank you.

  29. tigersgeaux says: Aug 1, 2012 4:54 PM

    florida727:

    Great post. You put it better than I ever could. Thank you.

  30. gripless says: Aug 1, 2012 5:00 PM

    TO ALL THE HATERS

    The NCAA President Who Stole Football:

    Every Penn Stater down in Happy Valley, the tall and the small,
    Was cheering without any program at all!
    He HADN’T stopped the love of our University from coming! IT CAME!
    Somehow or other, it came just the same!

    And Dr. Emmert, with his Grinch-feet ice-cold in the snow, stood puzzling and puzzling:
    How could it be so?
    It came without JoePa! It came without goals!
    It came without scholarships, statues, or bowls!

    And he puzzled and puzzed, till his puzzler was sore.
    Then Dr. Emmert thought of something he hadn’t before!
    “Maybe Penn State,” he thought, “isn’t just a football store.
    Maybe Penn State… perhaps… means a little bit more.”

    Onward State

  31. bubbamudd says: Aug 1, 2012 5:05 PM

    @fetchezlavache

    From NCAA: they can transfer now until 2013 before preseason practice with Penn State

    http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/20120723/21207234

  32. chmba says: Aug 1, 2012 5:09 PM

    The NCAA cannot penalize the ultimately responsible party – that is the PSU Board of Trustees. This is first and foremost a monumental failure at the governance level and it is clear that opaqueness is not giving way to transparency even at this point. If I were to criticize Emmert it would be for allowing this operation to “cop a plea bargain” rather than suspending the program. This BOT and the “new” PSU leadership still does not”get it” so everyone else will suffer and they will go on with their perks, etc.

  33. fetchezlavache says: Aug 1, 2012 5:28 PM

    Thanks Bubba

  34. haterhurter937 says: Aug 1, 2012 7:16 PM

    Robert Bolden is gone? YESSSS!!!!

  35. nadsiantheory says: Aug 1, 2012 7:25 PM

    This is all Lane Kiffin’s fault.

  36. ematusko says: Aug 1, 2012 7:50 PM

    @omniusprime – are you up to your old unfunny one liners again? Your shtick is tired at best, and just wasn’t that clever to begin with. I’ll give you credit though, you are consistent….if not borderline illiterate.

    So c’mon back at me with the “you love Paterno line, baby rape enabler, blah blah blah” even though I despise the man, and have said so about 4,000 times. You’re as dumb as steeler1nation, which is a feat in and of itself.

    Just curious where did you go to college?

  37. ematusko says: Aug 1, 2012 7:54 PM

    And throw @munchman69 in that statement as well.

    One thing I’ve noticed is that people I know who’ve really piled on the whole “f Psu” bandwagon are usually pretty miserable in general, underachievers, fringe types who don’t really have a lot of friends and seem to be overall unhappy in general. If this gives them solace then so be it. A loser is a loser is a loser.

  38. mailman2504 says: Aug 1, 2012 10:05 PM

    Figuratively speaking, this is why my mom told my not to sweep garbage under the rug in my room when I was a kid.

  39. amosalanzostagg says: Aug 1, 2012 11:23 PM

    “unprecedented failure of institutional integrity leading to a culture in which a football program was held in higher esteem than the values of the institution, the values of the NCAA, the values of higher education, and most disturbingly the values of human decency.”

    That is why the NCAA had to step in.

    Sandusky had an office right down the hall from JoePa for over 30 years. JoePa never warned his ownfootball staff of Sandusky. JoePa let Sandusky have unfettered access to the PSU facilities as a way to prey on INNOCENT young BOYS.

    PSU supporters answer why does a nationally renown DC w two National Championships to his resume suddenly “Retire” and not even get a whiff
    of a HC collegiate job of his own choosing in subsequent years? Who put the word out and when did officials know?

    Could it be that PSU officials kept Sandusky @ Second Mile in order to keep an “eye” on Sandusky? and keep their dirty laundry from being
    exposed?

    Why is one of the last statements from JoePa one in which he said he wished he had done more?

    State Penn made their bed, now lie in it.

    See you in a couple of decades.

  40. amosalanzostagg says: Aug 1, 2012 11:28 PM

    Evil can only exist when good men do nothing.

  41. amosalanzostagg says: Aug 1, 2012 11:40 PM

    To PSU supporters

    Let’s see how ardent you are as fans when

    (1.) you go on the road and are verbally abused by Big Ten schools who will be merciless to ANY Penn State team, for YEARS

    (2.) when the sanctions really hit home next year on recruiting in fooball and there is no basis for a red shirt program or for injuries,

    (3.) Penn State will reap what has been sown by
    recruiting coordinators in every sport. I’ve already seen it first hand with recruits in NY where the first
    words out of a parents mouth is “You really want to
    go to Penn State?” and the recruit starts to actually
    think about an association with a tarnished University., and

    (4.) When you actually will be ashamed of wearing
    a Penn State memorabilia and get looks and hushed
    whispers from strangers followed by a look of disdain and laughing.

  42. tommy57 says: Aug 2, 2012 12:58 AM

    @amosalanzostagg

    Actually, I’ve already experienced the circumstances your describe. Growing-up in Pittsburgh, anyone who supported PSU or any Philadelphia professional sports team was indeed likely to receive some sort of “…look of disdain…” if not experience physical violence.

    Yes, there will always be the closed-minded in society who are unable or unwilling to consider the entirety of a particular situation or circumstance and will only consider the portions that agree with their particular viewpoint. The far right and far left in politics are good examples of the narrow-minded prejudice in American society today. It’s those in the middle, who are able and willing to take a reasoned approach and consider all sides of a particular issue who best hold the keys to the future.

    PSU will suffer, but PSU will survive.

  43. amosalanzostagg says: Aug 2, 2012 9:16 AM

    Penn State will be a mere shell of it’s former glory.

    Paterno spent decades building PSU from a perception of an Eastern school playing a soft schedule to a national player on the the national stage. That is all gone….forever.

    Even when Penn State starts to rebuild it’s once
    storied program, The Sandusky affair will always be the lead in any story, print,media or blog, and the
    point of the article or segment involved will be secondary. This is the millstone around Penn State’s
    neck.

    SMU suffered a two year “Death Penalty” and has never made it back to the lofty status it enjoyed in the late 70’s and early 80’s. What makes Penn State
    think that they would be an immediate return to glory once the five years of probation is over?

    College Football is about the here and now. Kids want to play for National Championships on TV before packed houses to get them exposure for the NFL and the accompanying bling that comes with it.

    Will the stadium in Happy Valley be full in the beginning of the third year of the probation? I serious doubt it. Even now the Penn State ticket office is receiving requests for refunds on football
    season tickets (which will not happen)

    Penn State was mediocre in Paterno’s twilight years. It will be worse once the probation starts taking effect and darker once an attempt to rebuild
    starts.

  44. blastfurnaceknows says: Aug 2, 2012 10:04 AM

    tommy57,

    I have been to Happy Valley. I have been to about 16 other college football locales. The fans at PSU are ardent and there is nothing wrong with that. And I agree PSU is more that its football program. I disagree that many in the PSU community see it that way though.

    You ask why is it that people think PSU is uniquely myopic about football over all else? My response is as follows:

    1) Where else have we ever seen an administration and coaching staff place football and image over the welfare of at-risk children?

    2) Where else have we seen at-risk children raped for more than a decade while that same administration and coaching staff weighed the “humane” treatment of the rapist above that of the rape victims?

    3) Where else would we see when the head coach finally got what was coming to him for his complicity in the child rapes in the form of being fired, that the student body riots, instead of contemplates?

    4) Where else would we see, when it is crystal clear that said head coach was complicit in the rape of children by his assistant coach, that some of that same student body would spend its time “sleeping out” to protect his statue, rather than pursuit of some scholarly endeavors, coeds or, frankly, anything else?

    I am sorry, but PSU is NOT like other Div 1 programs. It is uniquely twisted around its football program and the NCAA cited same when it issued its punishment, which for many, may have actually been too lenient. That culture is what justified the punishment received and I believe, justified even more.

  45. unclemoobaa1911 says: Aug 2, 2012 10:24 AM

    @amosalonzostagg SMU actually got the death penalty for one year, and willingly chose not to play for the second year.

    @blastfurnaceknows Every division 1 school is twisted around its football program, with the exception of Duke.

  46. blastfurnaceknows says: Aug 2, 2012 10:52 AM

    Moo,

    Please respond to the four uniquely “twisted” pieces of evidence that I outlined above and tell me and others here how “every Div 1 school” is “twisted around its football program” in the same way PSU has been.

    A blanket statement, such as yours, is not at all responsive. It’s weak. From your previous post, I know you are a PSU supporter and long-time part of that community, so you MUST have more, no? Tell me how the Alabamas, Oklahomas and Ohio States have similar back stories. Tell us about how Ohio State students rioted when there football coach was dismissed. Tell us how Alabama covered up for a child rapist. Tell us about how the 4 most high-profile men at Oklahoma perjured themselves in the face of a child rape investigation.

    You can’t. That’s why your blanket statement is not just weak, it’s utterly useless. PSU stands at the bottom of the moral heap that is college football as a result of all of this and their position there is well-deserved and not shared by every other program but Duke. Get a grip on reality, man! What has happened at PSU is uniquely sickening and people like you are why the death penalty should have been imposed – because the PSU community still does not get how far from par its program has criminally failed.

  47. tommy57 says: Aug 3, 2012 4:09 AM

    @blast
    To me, all four of your separate points are essentially the same – that the university leadership failed in their duty to expose the terrible and criminal behavior of Jerry Sandusky. If so, I fully agree. I also believe your inference is that these university officials failed in their duty in order to protect the highly popular and financially-productive football program, because exposing the criminal behavior would (as it has done) significantly damage the program. Again, if true, I agree.

    But you seem to contradict yourself when you first write that “And I agree PSU is more that its football program.” But follow it with “I disagree that many in the PSU community see it that way though.” How can PSU be more than football if the PSU community doesn’t see it that way? And, you continue, writing “I am sorry, but PSU is NOT like other Div 1 programs. It is uniquely twisted around its football program…” Again, it seems somewhat contradictory to first write that you agree PSU is more than football, but yet PSU is ‘uniquely twisted around its football program….”

    It seems to me that you and geo1113 may share the same opinion, that it was the strong PSU community support to the PSU football program that created a circumstance whereby the PSU leadership felt obliged to protect this ‘cash cow’ and therefore failed to act on the Sandusky crimes. Again, I would agree that is was most likely the circumstance. Where I think we disagree is that this same circumstance, reliance on an athletic program that generates significant revenue, is also present at other schools.

    Do I think for one minute that Pat Haden at USC would have acted the same at Tim Curley? Absolutely not. My point is that there was a catastrophic failure of leadership at PSU and that those who failed must and will be held accountable. But to infer that this failure was the direct result of strong support for the football program by students and others or that this level of support for a college football or basketball program is unique to PSU is just not accurate, in my opinion.

  48. blastfurnaceknows says: Aug 3, 2012 11:07 AM

    Nope, you don’t get it, but, then again, I didn’t expect you to. The first two points do identify criminally failed leadership. The last 2 points identify a very flawed student body. All 4 points, though, identify a culture that is unique and creepy and not to be found elsewhere. When I say PSU is more than its football program, I say that is my opinion from personal experience. When I say that the leadership enabled a child rapist and a student body seemed to care more about a fictional image of a coach or his statue, I am saying that the community there does not see it as I and maybe you do.

    And that is a culture that deserves punishment and requires destruction. It is one thing to have an ardent fan base or a football program that is a “cash cow” – you can point to dozens of programs that fit that profile. It is quite another thing, however, when the football program or its coach becomes a sort of religion. This terrible affair has revealed that is precisely what was in place at PSU for decades. And whether you like it or not, that is why the NCAA was obligated to act and why the public at large now condemns the community as a whole.

    Blaming this on “failed leadership” is a cop out and grossly underestimates what happened, because failed leadership can happen anywhere too. But complicity in the rape of children? A student body who riots in support of a coach in face of that? No, sorry, thankfully PSU stands alone there. That is what makes it unique – not just unique, but uniquely creepy, and I would think as a PSU backer, you would want that culture to end as much as anyone.

  49. tommy57 says: Aug 3, 2012 11:40 AM

    Blast,

    Sorry, but I still think you’re looking at this with a very narrow scope. Surely, you can’t be under the impression that the famous college coaches in hisotry (Bear Bryant, John Wooden, etc) were not held in the same high regard by the school students and supporters as was Joe Paterno?

    Also, please recall that the so-called ‘riot’ that took place the night of Paterno’s firing was initiated by a very, very tiny portion of the PSU population who mostly admit now that they were ill informed of the circumstances of Paterno’s actions. As you will also recall, there was no disturbance when the Paterno statue was removed because by then, the full impact of the circumstances was known by all. This wasn’t the case in the early days.

    You’ve obviously made up your mind that everyone in PSU is guilty in some manner, and that’s your decision. But you admit that failed leadership can happen anywhere, and on that point I agree. But to infer that PSU student body was complicient in Sandusky’s crimes is just not plausible and you present no evidence to support this opinion.

  50. ematusko says: Aug 3, 2012 11:54 AM

    @blastfurnaceknows – as pathetic as it is, any fanbase out there, if it ever had to face something so horrendous, would almost certainly react the same way. It’s only natural to stand by a program you’ve had allegiances to for 5, 10, 15, 20+ years. If this happened at Alabama, Florida, Texas, Notre Dame, USC, Ohio St, Oklahoma, Michigan, etc. their fans would react the same way.

    As for students rioting, 18-22 year olds make terrible groupthink decisions on a daily basis. 5-20 years from now you’re going to hear alot of remorse by these kids for the way they acted and defended Paterno, who was certainly undeserving of such high regard.

    You can’t talk in absolutes when no other school has been faced with such atrocious acts. Now if you’ve done cultural research on State College and Center County, and compared it to other state universities and their surrounding areas then maybe you have a point.

  51. tommy57 says: Aug 3, 2012 1:21 PM

    @ematusko

    Very well written.

  52. fetchezlavache says: Aug 3, 2012 1:45 PM

    @blast

    Part of your argument regarding the culture at PSU as it relates to the student body is that i) the “students” rioted when they fired Paterno and ii) the “students” camped out to defend the statue. First, the whole student body did not riot and nor did they all camp out. You can’t paint the whole student body with a broad paintbrush based on the actions of a small group. We’re talking about a school with over 40,000 undergrad and grad students.

    Based on your argument, I could then make the counter argument that in fact that the student body are a bunch of angels who are only concerned about the welfare of others and are the MOST altruistic students in the world because of THON. Every year they run a two-day dance marathon to raise money to fund research for pediatric cancer. This past year THON raised over $10 million dollars, making it the largest student-run philanthropy in the WORLD.

    Of course not every student participates in THON. And not every student that participates in THON is the second coming of Mother Theresa. The simple fact is that the actions at one moment in time of a subset of the student population is not indicative of the character of either the whole of the student body or even any one individual participating in an event.

    The simple fact is that key members in the administration, including Paterno, failed. The Board of Trustees failed to ensure proper oversight and to convey that football was NOT the most important thing on campus. But by no means did the student body or the community of Centre County participate or endorse the actions of Sandusky and the ensuing oversight. Drawing inferences in your last two points is the WEAK argument here. Unless you have proof that a student-wide conspiracy was in place with everyone in the community aware of what was going on, you should just accept that the leadership failed. If you don’t believe that is the case, look at any presidency over the last century where corruption existed and tell me how the populace at large must be held liable for the actions of the political leaders.

  53. tommy57 says: Aug 3, 2012 2:55 PM

    @blast

    I repeat below a previous post

    OK – as I mentioned in the other post, I can see you’ve already made up your mind. It’s interesting that you mention the ‘riot’ of 10 November but ignore the candelight vigil of the following night, which was attended by far more PSU students. I guess that says something, doesn’t it.

  54. granadafan says: Aug 3, 2012 4:40 PM

    “stairwayto7 says: Aug 1, 2012 4:41 PM
    Wow, now the trolls are saying they are getting great players when last season they had no idea who these guys were! I would like to see what classes these bums take at their new schools!”
    ================================

    Stairway, CAL fans certainly know who Fortt is as we recruited him very hard before he ultimately decided on PSU. By the way, CAL is a much much better school than PSU. Heck, so is U$C.

  55. ampatsisahypocrite says: Aug 4, 2012 1:19 AM

    blastfurnaceknows says:
    Aug 3, 2012 11:07 AM
    Nope, you don’t get it, but, then again, I didn’t expect you to. The first two points do identify criminally failed leadership. The last 2 points identify a very flawed student body. All 4 points, though, identify a culture that is unique and creepy and not to be found elsewhere.
    —————————————-

    “Creepy”? You bet. “Not to be found elsewhere”? That I doubt.

    Look at how other big football schools have reacted to this horrible situation. Have they a)talked about how sad this whole thing is, poor kids, or b)gone full-steam-ahead after the stranded players, choosing instead to pick the carcass?

    Is it not also “creepy” to say, go over the Penn State roster, weeks before sanctions were handed down, rubbing your hands together in anticipation of the chance to land that player you wanted? Is it not “creepy” to send coaches to State College to stalk PSU players?

    Is it not “creepy” to use pedophilia as a recruiting opportunity?

    When Lane Kiffin landed Silas Redd — after having called his high school coach to let him know USC was interested — did he talk about how sad it was what happened to these poor kids? Or did he gab on (as he did to Cowherd) about how swell it was he nabbed that running back he needed?

    Can you tell me you don’t get a bit “creeped out” listening to Kiffin gloat, not seeming to realize he’s — anyway you want to slice it — profited off of what Sandusky did?

    If you’ve gone after a Penn State player, you’ve shown basically the same attitude they showed at State College — that the program is more important than anything else.

    Did you hear even one major football’s school’s AD come out and say, “look this is a tragedy, and we’re not going to enrich our own program off this”?

    Believe me, chum, the “creepiness” isn’t limited to State College, PA.

  56. blastfurnaceknows says: Aug 4, 2012 11:57 AM

    hypocrite, just so we are clear, you are equating recruitment of college football players who want to play somewhere else to the cover-up and enabling of child rape. OK, chum, live with that principled position on creepiness, because all it tells me is where your moral priorities lie. And it is kind of creepy, if you ask me.

    To tommy and others like him, a riot is riot, isn’t it? We have not seen that happen when other popular head coaches have been fired, have we? Let alone when the reason behind the firing is complicity in the criminal behavior of one of his assistant coaches. Criminal behavior that involved the rape of children. Doesn’t that say something? (I know it doesn’t to you, but I have come to the conclusion that the cult lives on.).

  57. ampatsisahypocrite says: Aug 4, 2012 2:57 PM

    No, blast boy, I am NOT “equating recruitment of college football players who want to play somewhere else to the cover-up and enabling of child rape.” Don’t EVEN try and put such sick words in my mouth. What I am saying — if you could read — is that what these other schools have done is “creepy” in its own right. Or are you saying using pedophilia as a recruiting tool ISN’T “creepy”?

    I merely said the “creepy” stuff isn’t just confined to State College. And that for other college programs to go after Penn State players in the wake of pedophilia, is sick in its own right — and that it is, in its own way, doing what we all banged on Penn State for — namely, putting your football program above all else, including a sense of morals.

    Got that, “chum”?

    I’m merely disagreeing with you that such “creepy” behavior is necessarily confined to Penn State’s campus. And the recent behavior of other colleges looking to profit from the sick Sandusky situation PROVES it.

    And for the record, I kind of think YOU’RE a bit “creepy” for not recognizing this. Because you seem think it’s just swell and peachy.

    Look, nobody is arguing that Penn State shouldn’t be getting all that’s coming to them, and more. But show me a major college program, and I’ll show you a place where they’d cover up just about anything if it meant saving the program. You wanna bet this happened at USC or Texas or wherever, at least somebody wouldn’t look to sweep this under the rug? To look at damage control for the moneymaker as at least as important as the welfare of kids? And that the student body at that school wouldn’t take an us-against-them, rally-around-the-school-colors attitude? If you don’t, I’ve got a big patch of swampland in Florida to sell you — cheap!

    That’s why I think your claim that such cover-up creepy behavior could only happen at Penn State is wrong — and probably more rooted in some axe you have to grind with them. (You wouldn’t happen to be a Pitt fan, would you?)

  58. fetchezlavache says: Aug 4, 2012 5:57 PM

    @blast

    A riot is inexcusable. Yes. But that doesn’t mean that a whole community is damned. And a sports-related riot, no matter the cause, cannot be justified. Based on your logic, the citizens of Vancouver are twisted because “they” rioted after losing a hockey game. It was only a hockey game, they caused way more damage and the Penn State “rioters” did not have the complete Freeh report but instead only leaks from a grand jury report to help them understand Paterno’s involvement But no matter whether the students had complete information or not, it’s not fair to condemn all based on the actions of some idiots.

    As for programs getting too wrapped up in coaching icons and giving them too much leeway, here’s another example. For years, everyone knew that Bobby Knight was a bully. But it wasn’t until they had ceased to be a top-flight program did Indiana do something. But even in the face of video proof of him choking a player, the school did nothing. Instead, they put him on double-secret probation. It finally took him throwing a potted plant at a secretary for the school to say enough. Why did it take so long? Because he made a lot of money for the school and a vocal portion of the alumni would have screamed bloody murder if they had terminated him after the video surfaced of him choking Neil Reed. And has Knight ever apologized for his actions? No, because his ego is too large.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/03/sports/ncaabasketball/neil-reed-was-known-as-player-choked-by-bob-knight.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

    What happened at State is not particular to State College. If you don’t believe so, then watch “Roll Tide War Eagle” from ESPN which documented the rivalry between Alabama and Auburn. One Bama fan went so far as to poison a revered tree on Auburn’s campus. When asked why, he replied, “There’s too much Bama in me. I don’t have my priorities straight.” Or as Paul Finebaum described the rivalry, it’s like the Israelis and Palestinians living together. Penn State leaders didn’t have a patent on letting big money warp their perspective, but they sure as hell went somewhere no other admin travelled. But to say that the community/student body at large is a) responsible / complicit and b) more warped than any other group is complete horseshit. You don’t have a leg to stand on to refute my points and you know it.

  59. ampatsisahypocrite says: Aug 5, 2012 12:33 AM

    fetchezlavache — pretty much right on. The culture of putting the program above all else is certainly not confined to Penn State. Only in blast furnace’s mind is it, but obviously he’s got some chip on his shoulder where Penn State is concerned, that clouds his judgment. He simply can’t be objective.

    These other big schools had the option of sitting out recruiting Penn State players on grounds that what happened was sick and wrong, and they wanted no part of profiting from it. Instead, they all jumped in like vultures ripping at the carcass — so you see, again, their own programs come first. I mean, how obvious can it be? After months of hearing how horrible it is to put football first, like they did at Penn State — the rest of the schools, yep, put football first and above all else.

  60. blastfurnaceknows says: Aug 5, 2012 1:42 AM

    Wow and I mean WOW!!! There are other people out there that believe that big-time college football programs will or should try to sweep child rape under the rug to further their football program. Penn St. does not stand alone after all?!? I have never been so disgusted with the current state of college football or its fans.

    Thank you hypocite and fetch for enlightening me on the college football fan’s perspective on what matters most, or at least what they expect would be prioritized in their or other major football program’s evaluations.

    Just so you wonderful fellows know, I am a former child abuse prosecutor. Most of that job, unfortunately, involved sitting across the table from children while they told me how their relative, friend, babysitter, priest or teacher abused them in some pretty horrific ways. It never really occurred to me, until reading your posts of course, that there could be something that was more important than that sort of violation of trust. Something that, you know, may justify trying to overlook that sort of abuse.

    Yep, I’ve got a chip on my shoulder. I’m a Pitt fan. You’ve exposed me you idiotic, twisted “hypocrite.” No, it couldn’t be that maybe I, as a human being experienced in the world in a much more relevant way than you could ever be, would believe that there is still a 7th rail in college athletics, a crime so horrific, so catastrophic, that even a cash cow college football program’s leadership would believe that it outweighs cash, image and victories. Yes, I am the one who’s judgment is clouded, because it couldn’t be you.

    Seriously people, are you so warped, so wrapped up in the college football scene, that you do not see what happened at PSU as shocking, aberrant, and hopefully, a once in a lifetime scandal?

    Never mind, your posts clearly indicate that child rape is just like any other unwanted PR obstacle in your minds, something that any other program would “look to sweep under the rug.” Yes, just like a fan poisoning a tree or a college basketball coach putting his hand on one of his players. That is precisely what a child would describe being raped by someone he or she loved or trusted was like – just like a tree being vandalized or a player being embarrassed or bruised by a coach.

    Maybe you should sit down and speak to a 10 year old about being raped, before you ever speak on this subject again, because your posts are remarkably ignorant and seem to indicate that YOU ARE CLOUDED BY A FREAKING COLLEGE SPORT!!! Seriously, tree vandalism, USC recruiting essentially a free agent, and Bobby Knight are comparable to the rape of a child? And hypocrite, I was being far too kind to you earlier, you are not creepy – YOU ARE FLAT OUT SICK!!!

    I am now done with this discussion, because it is disgustingly apparent to me that you complete nobody college-football worshippers are incapable of understanding how uniquely horrific this PSU scandal truly is – how truly horrific child rape is. If you do not understand that the cover-up of child rape is not equivalent to recruiting violations, unseemly recruiting activity or vandalism, then you are truly among the dregs of the CFT, or for that matter any, community. And I want NO part of any community you’d be a part of.

  61. tommy57 says: Aug 5, 2012 2:58 AM

    @blast

    wow, and I mean wow, too! You completely obscure the inputs of others to satisfy your own narrow viewpoint.

    I can understand why you are a ‘former’ child abuse prosecutor. I suspect you weren’t very good at it.

  62. fetchezlavache says: Aug 5, 2012 3:46 PM

    @blast

    You really are thick. First off, I have never condoned the actions of the PSU admin. Of course what happened up there was horribly wrong, and I don’t need your sanctimonious lecture when I never said it was OK or came close to saying it was OK.

    BTW, I didn’t put Indiana protecting Bobby Knight on the same level as PSU protecting Sandusky. I clearly said: “Penn State leaders didn’t have a patent on letting big money warp their perspective, but they sure as hell went somewhere no other admin travelled.” Learn to read, blast. To put it more clearly for you, I will state that PSU admin allowed crimes to be committed that any person with a clear head would have stopped right away.

    My point about Knight was that Indiana let their own form of abuse cloud their better judgment. And remind me to never let my kids near you as a coach. Based on your reasoning, sexual abuse is BAD. But emotional abuse is OK. What Knight inflicted on Reid wasn’t a gentle grab of his shirt collar. It was a choke. If it’s not OK for a Little League coach to grab a kid like that, then it’s not OK for a college coach. Remeber Woody Hayes got fired right away for punching an opposing player. There was no equivocation on the part of OSU. But then again it was caught on national TV so they had little choice. If you had read the article, you would have seen that Neil Reed wasn’t the same after Bobby Knight got through with him. But according to you, it’s OK to emotionally abuse as long as it doesn’t turn sexual. You call me a dreg?? How about you for stating that it’s OK to act like a bully from a position of power. And don’t tell me that this was the first instance of Knight acting like a bully. He had a long documented history of acting like a bully. How much you want to bet that Knight has ever punched one of his players in the chest to make one of his “points”?

    Finally, if you need concrete proof of organizations covering up sexual abuse in order to protect the “program”, here are five examples:

    1) The Catholic Church which takes the prize for covering up sexual abuse. According to your foregoing logic, the Church should get the death penalty from the government because if the leaders covered up the abuses of some priests then the whole priesthood is guilty. And because congregants might have come out in support of priests that were accused, then implicitly the whole congregation of the church is equally guilty. Because those were your points in 3) and 4) above.

    2) Boys Scouts of America. See the rest of my arguments for the Catholic Church.

    3) USA Swimming. There is a well-documented history of sexual abuse in USA Swimming. Recently, USA Swimming has instituted new background checks and rules for reporting abuse to deal with all of the problems arising. Within the last month, a story of abuse from several decades ago arose at Curl-Burke, one of the largest programs in the country (and home of the girl that just won Gold in the 800 Free) And when the coach was accused of the abuse in the past what did they do? The program paid the family of the young girl “hush” money.

    4) Theo Fleury. Theo was an NHL All-Star that had been sexually abused by his coach in Canadian Juniors. His coach was considered one of the best coaches in Juniors. When two former players stepped forward to acuse the coach and a civil lawsuit was filed, not only was the coach named but also the Canadian Hockey Assn. and the Western Hockey League. The civil lawsuit was settled out of court. Without having court documents, I’m going to assume that there must have been some compelling evidence implicating the CHA and WHL as having some kinowledge regarding the coach’s actions but deciding not to do anything. Even after going to jail, someone or some individuals on the Canadian Parole Board still saw fit to give this coach a pardon.

    5) Google “University of Pennsylvania” and “Scott Ward”. He was a prominent member of the faculty at the Wharton School of Business and brought in significant dollars for the school from his consulting arrangements with organizations like FedEx. But he was also a known pedophile which the school chose to ignore. They could have terminated his tenure based on his being arrested for sex crimes, but they took a long time before doing anything, thereby enabling his continued attempts to seek out young boys.

    So there you have it blast. 5 examples of organizations complicitly covering up and/or enabling sexual abuse by being reticent to air their dirt laundry. Again, I will stipulate what happened at PSU was horrific. The PSU admin is on a very small island of idiots/criminals that have enabled perverts like Sandusky. But the PSU admin is not on the island by itself. If you were truly a prosecutor of child abuse, then you would know that besides the criminal themselves that there are often individuals that cover up the crimes for various reasons, money being one of the biggest reasons.

    Also, if you were really a former prosecutor, then you would also know that the leak of grand jury testimony in and of itself was not proof of Paterno and the admin being complicit in covering up Sandusky’s crimes. At this time Spanier is still a tenured professor because in the COURT OF LAW, he is still innocent of ANY crimes, thereby preventing the PSU trustees from legally taking any action. So when you accuse the whole community of PSU of being warped because a subset of the students rioted in support of Paterno, you ignore the facts on the ground at that time. First, they were upset about Paterno’s firing without having the full set of facts about the case, and two they were not condoning the sexual abuse but responding to the firing itself. And before you get back on your high horse and say that even the leak of the grand jury report itself should have been enough to sway the whole of the PSU community that the limited information was totally correct as presented at that time, remember the rush to judgment regarding Duke lacrosse. In the days after the incident, people were coming out and saying that the program should be disbanded. And I’m sure the view from your high horse was that the students that supported the lacrosse program meant that they were warped and lacked proper perspective. But as it turned out, there is such a thing as prosecutorial misconduct.

    In the end, terrible things happened in State College. The guilty parties in covering up the crimes will get their day in court to defend their claims of innocence. By inference from those trials, the final verdict will be rendered on Paterno. (Yes, I beleive he played a role) But as I have proven, PSU does not stand alone as enablers. It doesn’t make it right. It just proves that as a society we need to continue to stress the understanding that nothing (church, football program, hockey program, reputation of business school, …..) should be placed above the welfare of children. But coming at the problem by accusing the admin of PSU of being the only entity that got its perspective out of whack is a false argument. Also, while emotional abuse does not rise to the level of sexual abuse, Indiana is proof that even when the evidence is out in public (like the Redd video) that a large institution will still hesitate to move against an individual that generates large cash flow. Finally, nice try at conflating arguments blast, but my reference to Bama wasn’t about the actions of the PSU admin but about the community/student population. No one in the community has ever come out in support of child abuse. But just like there are wackos in the Bama community, there are wackos in the PSU community. But that fact itself is not an indictment of the larger community as a whole. To that end, prove to me the complicity of a PSU student that is currently a senior and has attended football games in the past and gone to bowl games but believes that the admin was wrong and Joe was wrong. To that end, you accused the “student body” of rioting and guarding the statue of being complicit. But I bet I can find a lot more students like the seniors I described than you can find members of your “student body”.

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