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Four of first seven in initial BcS rankings from SEC

Death to the BcS

Just remember, this is the second-to-last time we have the release of an initial BcS rankings for any given season.

That said, there were few surprises in the first set of BcS rankings released for the 2012 season, even more so when viewed through the prism of half the regular season and conference championship games still remain.

As expected, Alabama, a unanimous No. 1 in both major polls — and the Harris poll, too — is the No. 1 team in the country according to the BcS formula that consists of the coaches’ poll, computers, and the aforementioned Harris poll.  In fact, it’s not even all that close at this way-too-early point in time.

The Tide had a .9761 average in the convoluted BcS formula, while No. 2 Florida stood at .9092; that gap is more than twice as great as the gap between the Gators and No. 5 Notre Dame (.8774).

“The release of the first BCS weekly standings always creates great excitement for college football fans,” BcS executive director Bill Hancock, presumably with a somewhat straight face, said in a statement. “Even though there are still almost two months to go in the regular season, everyone loves to talk about the standings and make projections for the postseason. Whether your favorite team is trying to qualify for a bowl game or trying to make it all the way to the National Championship Game, every game is going to count*.”

(*except for 2011 LSU-Alabama v1.0)

Perhaps the only surprising aspect of the initial release involves Oregon.  Near-unanimous among the human voters as the No. 2 team in the country, the Ducks were just sixth in the computer compilation, dropping UO to No. 3 in the initial release.

The Gators, on the other hand, were at No. 1 among the non-human machines*.  In another computer oddity, Texas Tech, coming off a thumping of then-No. 5 West Virginia in Lubbock, is the No. 7 team in the country according to the computers.

(*for those already asking about the term “non-human machines,” I have two words for you: Nick Saban, coaching cyborg.  If that’s not enough, I’ll gladly delve into the Disney automaton known as Les Miles, carved partially out of actual human flesh.)

Just as expected as Alabama’s spot atop the initial BcS perch, the Tide’s conference is well-represented as well.  Not only does the SEC have four teams in the top seven of the rankings — Alabama, Florida, LSU (No. 6), South Carolina (No. 7) — there are a total of seven — Georgia (No. 11), Mississippi State (No. 12) and Texas A&M (No. 18) being the others — inside the Top 20.

The Big 12 also has seven — three 20th or lower — in the initial Top 25, while the Pac-12 has four.  The Big East has three teams represented, while the Big Ten, with Ohio State ineligible for the postseason due to NCAA sanctions, has no teams in the initial Top 25.

Boise State at No. 22 is the only team from a so-called non-AQ conference in the first set of rankings.

(Much thanks to the National Football Foundation for the chart)

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61 Responses to “Four of first seven in initial BcS rankings from SEC”
  1. gopats23 says: Oct 14, 2012 9:28 PM

    The Big 10 does not have a team in the BCS top 25.

    This conference is a disaster.

  2. Deb says: Oct 14, 2012 9:53 PM

    @gopats23 …

    Ohio State would appear in the top 25 if not for sanctions that make the Buckeyes bowl-ineligible. The conference is just in a slump.

  3. normtide says: Oct 14, 2012 10:02 PM

    It is crazy trying to guess how the SEC is going to play out. But, hate it or love it, the league champ will be in the title game. Oregon has the inside track to be the other team. I still like ksu to get there if Oregon slips. Nd has a real shot, but something tells me they are missing a piece or two. There is also a chance, if all these teams slip up, for another SEC rematch. Most of the voters clearly see the SEC has the best collection of top tier teams.

  4. Deb says: Oct 14, 2012 10:06 PM

    I look forward to the new playoff format … but also remember when the BCS was welcomed as the new format that was supposed to solve everything. It won’t take long for folks to start complaining about the unfairness of the playoff. No format, other than the NFL’s, can be completely objective.

  5. atwatercrushesokoye says: Oct 14, 2012 10:14 PM

    The problem I have is the annual overrating of the SEC, generally their teams play cupcake out of conference schedules, but all of their teams are so overrated to begin with that once they start beating each other it’s just explained as “good team beating good team” realistically though outside of the top 2 or maybe 3 teams annually it’s overrated team beaten other overrated team.

    Alabama has beaten a Michigan team that isn’t very good (although I give them credit cause Michigan is a program that can have good teams every now and then) Western Kentucky, Florida Atlantic, and 3 bad SEC teams.

    LSU has “quality” wins against North Texas, Idaho, Towson, a very bad Auburn team, Washington and South Carolina, but is South Carolina any good?

    South Carolina’s only notable win is against Georgia but Georgia’s 5 wins have been against bad teams.

    Florida comes away as the most impressive of the SEC teams because they’ve beaten LSU and Texas A&M but again how do we know those teams are good?

    That’s 5 SEC teams that are ranked high, but none of them have played games against notable teams, until they start playing decent out of conference teams (with the exception of LSU who annually schedules at least one out of conference game against a decent team from another major conference) are we sure that any of them are as good as SEC fans tout that they are?

  6. fatcamper says: Oct 14, 2012 10:15 PM

    The Big East has 3 (4 if you count Boise) in the top 25. Not too bad for a conference that won’t have a seat at the table under the new system. They really are stuck somewhere in the middle.

  7. normtide says: Oct 14, 2012 10:18 PM

    Fully agree Deb. I have said all along, FBS needs to be whittled down to around 70 teams or so and expand the playoff to ever come close to a true system like the NFL. I am for a relegating teams like some of the Europe soccer leagues do. Based on winning and attendance.

  8. gopats23 says: Oct 14, 2012 10:20 PM

    atwatercrushesokoye – the annual overrating??


    They have won – not just played in, but won the last 6 title games.

    I think you might not be seeing this one correctly…

  9. atwatercrushesokoye says: Oct 14, 2012 10:24 PM

    Normtide: I think that would be a great system, relegation and promotion would add an exciting element for schools that have no chance of ever competing for the championship.

  10. normtide says: Oct 14, 2012 10:26 PM

    Atwater- you can play that game with any team. Who had Oregon beaten? Or ND? Or anyone, in your nothing is proven world. Your looking for empirical evidence in the highly speculative sphere of sports. Also, these voters are from across the country country, why would they push an SEC agenda? Unless they are all wrong, and you alone are correct.

  11. atwatercrushesokoye says: Oct 14, 2012 10:28 PM

    Gopats23: I agree the top 2 or 3 teams in the SEC are generally the best in the country (I think Bama is probably the best team this year although I really want to see their defense go against the Oregon offense) it’s the middle teams in the SEC that I believe are annually overrated. Take Georgia for example, every year they’re ranked early as a top team and every year they turn out to be not nearly as good as originally thought.

    Teams 4-7 in the SEC are always ranked highly even though they usually aren’t anywhere near as good as their rankings.

  12. imaduffer says: Oct 14, 2012 10:30 PM

    I’ll agree that the SEC is the best conference in the country, I mean after all, they only play with themselves, if there not playing against some other inferior team.

  13. normtide says: Oct 14, 2012 10:30 PM

    Relegation would mean all teams are forced to compete. Not just cash the checks they receive for bring in Ann AQ league.

  14. atwatercrushesokoye says: Oct 14, 2012 10:36 PM

    Normtide: I believe that the SEC has been given (by many) a level of respect that it deserves in certain years but in years like last year and this one it doesn’t. The solution to this is not releasing polls until October that way teams are ranked based on what they’ve actually done rather than being given a preseason ranking and merely just needing to sustain that.

    Of course I’d also like to see teams schedule tougher out of conference games, that’s why I give respect to Bama because they scheduled Michigan, a team from a big conference who has a history of being good, it’s not their fault that Michigan turned out to be not quite as good as thought.

  15. brakengo says: Oct 14, 2012 10:39 PM

    @ normtide

    take your ball and go away! Click.

  16. normtide says: Oct 14, 2012 10:40 PM

    The only thing that will change the perception, is a team from another league beating an SEC team in a title game.

  17. normtide says: Oct 14, 2012 10:42 PM

    Brake, don’t get angry cause the truth hurts. It is always best to keep your cool and not let us see how bad this eats you up inside.

  18. Deb says: Oct 14, 2012 10:43 PM

    @normtide …

    I’d also like to see the FBS pared down to a manageable number of teams so we can have some REAL competition. The way it is now, if you lose one game, you’re out of the running. And that has an impact on how everyone schedules–not just the SEC. Almost every team schedules Division II OOC opponents. Southern Cal is one of the rare exceptions. At least the SEC teams are good teams, which is why they tend to lose to one another.

    Two or three losses shouldn’t disqualify strong teams from the running. And if we had a smaller number of teams in the FBS, maybe we could see more OOC matchups like Alabama/Michigan instead of Alabama/Florida Atlantic. As it stands now, the Alabamas and LSUs can’t schedule a lot of dangerous opponents because, if they do, then some Podunk school that seats 15,000 and has played community colleges but gone undefeated could just shoot up the polls and win the whole shebang.

  19. normtide says: Oct 14, 2012 10:49 PM

    Deb- yes, and the same people who attack the SEC ooc games, over look Boise’s sched and scream because they are left out.

  20. brakengo says: Oct 14, 2012 11:09 PM


    Graduate from Mizzou and roots for Tide.


    Adversity makes this forum worthwhile even your continual posts. It’ll all play out.

  21. Deb says: Oct 14, 2012 11:12 PM

    @normtide …

    That’s why I love the NFL setup. For one thing, rematches are the most exciting games of the year … not a reason to throw a tantrum and wet your pants. “Oh dear … they’re meeting again in the post-season. But that means the regular season didn’t count!!” Hello, regular season … post season. For another, hope remains alive longer, which means more fans are engaged throughout the entire season. Why is that a bad thing?

  22. linedrivehit says: Oct 14, 2012 11:15 PM

    Mr. John Taylor,
    “2011 LSU-Alabama v1.0” DID count… it’s just that ALL the pollsters AND the computer average agreed that OK State losing to an unranked team with a losing record should cost more than Alabama losing in OT to the then No.1 team.

  23. TxGrown says: Oct 14, 2012 11:16 PM

    @ normtide
    “take your NC footBALL championships and go away! Click.”

    No fan of the Tide here, but I do respect. Y’all earned em’

  24. Deb says: Oct 14, 2012 11:19 PM

    @brakengo …

    Tide came first. Mizzou was the best school for my major. No reason to change the football allegiance of a lifetime just because I went to school there.

  25. frug says: Oct 14, 2012 11:19 PM


    Oklahoma St. ranked ahead of Alabama in 4 of the 6 computers as well as the computer average. The human voters favored Alabama.

  26. Deb says: Oct 14, 2012 11:24 PM

    Given the final score, it appears humans still have some common-sense advantage over artificial intelligence … well, in some cases anyway.

  27. coachdeforrest says: Oct 14, 2012 11:55 PM


  28. florida727 says: Oct 14, 2012 11:59 PM

    I’m a little surprised that my Gators are ranked #2. I still think Oregon and K-State deserve to be ranked higher, but it’ll all play out in the end among the top teams. K-State will have to beat Oklahoma, Oregon will have to beat USC, Florida will still have to beat South Carolina, then Georgia, then Florida State, then Alabama in the SEC Championship game (assuming ‘Bama beats LSU and runs the table in the SEC West), in order to claim a spot in the title game.

    If Florida does all that (beat, in total, SIX teams that at some point were ranked in the Top 10), no one can argue them earning their place in the national championship game. But that’s a really big IF at this point. I still like an Alabama v. Oregon title game at this point.

    Although Florida’s defense can matchup with anyone at this point, I still think our offense is a little suspect. You can’t count on your QB rushing for 177 yards and a couple TD’s every week in the SEC. We need better production out of some other skill position players if we’re going to go far.

  29. coachdeforrest says: Oct 15, 2012 12:01 AM

    Sorry so hard to respond from phone. Plus message got cut off.

  30. Deb says: Oct 15, 2012 12:04 AM

    @florida727 …

    I’m much to big a cynic to think about Alabama in the title game at this point–especially with Baton Rouge between here and there. We still have too many rivers to cross. But I’m curious about your thoughts on Notre Dame. You didn’t mention the Irish.

  31. clonefan says: Oct 15, 2012 12:07 AM


    K-State already beat OU. They still have WVU this coming weekend, Texas Tech, OSU, TCU, Baylor and Texas… But I’d say your overall judgement is correct….

    I’m just praying we don’t get anoter SEC vs SEC final or any other same vs same. I want to see how the top two conferences stack up in the end….

  32. clonefan says: Oct 15, 2012 12:14 AM

    @ Deb

    I know you didn’t ask me, but I am kind of cheering for ND… They play a nice mix of different conferences. If the BIG wasn’t so down it would be considered a pretty tough schedule. Still a pretty good schedule anyway, but unfortunately I don’t think they will last. Also concerned about their QB situation after this past weekend…

  33. Deb says: Oct 15, 2012 12:24 AM

    @clonefan …

    When I checked their schedule before the season started, it looked pretty tough. But so did ours (Alabama’s). Then Michigan and Arkansas dropped. You just never know how things will play out once the season starts. I’m just wondering if they could be a title contender. Guess we’ll have to wait and see :)

  34. atwatercrushesokoye says: Oct 15, 2012 12:34 AM

    I just hope we end up with the top two teams playing (hopefully both are undefeated and from different conferences so there’s no questions) and they provide us with an entertaining game which we didn’t have this past January…sorry SEC fans.

  35. gogatorsjohn says: Oct 15, 2012 1:09 AM

    Gators have tough road ahead of them starting this week. I just hope to go back to SEC title game and have a shot. I do think Alabama is still the best in the SEC but they will be challenged in Baton Rouge like always. Lots of tough match ups for all top BCS teams. Notre Dame has easiest shot now. Their toughest opponent will probably be USC. K-State is solid but I think they could trip up. Oregon has USC and Oregon State which is still unbeaten. LSU has still good shot with Bama at home but they have Texas A&M which could trip them up as well.

  36. txnative61 says: Oct 15, 2012 1:17 AM

    How can the computer rankings be so illogical? South Carolina above LSU that beat them yesterday. Florida and Notre Dame above Alabama—REALLY??? Oregon State over Oregon, might happen in Corvallis, but right now? Crazy! All this getting figured into BCS ranking just asinine. Computers can’t watch games!

  37. frug says: Oct 15, 2012 1:39 AM


    Computers can’t watch games!

    Neither do the coaches (or more accurately their assistants) who vote for the rankings.

    As for your general point, it’s about strength of schedule. Go and look at who those teams you listed have played and it will be clear why they are ranked the way they are.

  38. frug says: Oct 15, 2012 1:52 AM

    Oh, sorry for the double post, but one other issue is the fact that the BCS computers are forbidden from factoring margin of victory/defeat in their formulas (even though voters are allowed to consider it) which hurts teams like Alabama and (especially) Oregon since even though they have played lesser competition they have crushed them.

    Had the computers not been neutered, then Alabama and Oregon would be ranked higher.

  39. lakesidegator says: Oct 15, 2012 7:10 AM

    Everybody to sleep before 2:00 am. guess that’s not too bad.

  40. packerbadger says: Oct 15, 2012 8:33 AM

    gopats23 says:Oct 14, 2012 9:28 PM

    The Big 10 does not have a team in the BCS top 25.

    This conference is a disaster.

    But for the 99% of the SEC players that don’t make the pro’s; they’ll be working for the players of the Big 10……if they can actually fill out the job application.

  41. normtide says: Oct 15, 2012 8:37 AM

    Wrong, check your facts. Graduates of B1G schools have to become transplant southerners just to find jobs. Rust belt sucks, huh?

  42. omniusprime says: Oct 15, 2012 8:58 AM

    Sad to see so much SEC trash junking up the BCS standings. Also what a pathetic excuse for #2 as Oregon is far better than Florida. I’m glad that this corrupt BCS ranking system is ending, though not fast enough. Go USC!!!

  43. florida727 says: Oct 15, 2012 9:07 AM

    “clonefan”, sorry, my bad. I meant Oklahoma STATE but my brain got ahead of my fingers. K-State has a brutal road ahead of them. If they run the table they better get a shot at the title. WVU might be a little “irritated” after what Texas Tech did to them, then K-State HAS Texas Tech, not to mention the others you listed. If they win out, they’ll most definitely have EARNED their place in the title game. Their schedule is a killer. Unfortunately one loss and they’re out, unless a LOT of other teams also have one loss, which isn’t likely. Right or wrong, a one-loss SEC team WILL get the nod over a one-loss Kansas State team, solely based on reputation and having won the last six national titles.

    “Deb”, I didn’t mention Notre Dame because I think they’ll get beat, and not just once. Not a hater, just practical. Look at their schedule. They barely beat Michigan, who everyone says (at least in the context of Alabama’s schedule) is/was “overrated”. And ND could only win 13-6 AT HOME? They had to go to overtime to beat Stanford, again, AT HOME. Also, earlier in the year, they only beat Purdue 20-17, again, AT HOME. Purdue? Not exactly making a statement there. (Side note: one of my Ohio State friends always refers to them as “Pur-DON’T”. Cracks me up every time.)

    They’ll probably get by BYU, who is badly beat up with injuries, but then they have Oklahoma and USC to get past and both of those are in “unfriendly” surroundings. I just don’t see them running the table, and because they’re not in a conference championship game environment, I think they’re the least likely one-loss team to get into a title game. Besides, like I said, I think they’ll lose to both Oklahoma and USC. If they win out, different story of course.

    Not to be mean, but I think Alabama has the easiest route to the title game. They have to beat LSU in Baton Rouge, obviously no easy task, but other than that one game, who touches them? Yeah, they have Mississippi State and Texas A&M, but both of those are in Bryant-Denny. Their only other challenge might be in the SEC Championship game (v. Florida? I’m hopeful). Based on their strength of schedule, a one-loss Alabama does NOT get into the national title game, even if they win the SEC title (ie. a loss to Western Carolina, but win all the others; I know, I know, that’s a stretch).

  44. mydixienormus says: Oct 15, 2012 9:25 AM

    I guess this guy was right.

  45. fcmlefty1 says: Oct 15, 2012 10:19 AM

    No surprise that Florida is #2 right now – the computers love the fact that they’ve played so many conference games already. Their computer score will take a major hit in November. (But ironically, they are virtually assured to get stronger in the polls during that time).

    But, its important to point this out yet again: The computers are designed to give their scores at the end of the regular season. They need data from all 15 weeks to do so with anything that remotely resembles accuracy. They are not designed to be used as a “snapshot in time” in October and November, but sadly these “BCS forecast” shows and writings force them into the act early.

  46. irishdodger says: Oct 15, 2012 10:34 AM


    Concerning schools that have never played an FCS (DII) team, I believe SC & ND are the only ones. That will change w/ the new format as we’re seeing agreements added each week of BCS teams scheduling home/home games.

    As an ND fan, I can tell u that they’re not National Championship caliber. I think, right, now their project as a solid Top 10 team. I think the D is legit (not Alabama nor LSU standard, but a tough out nonetheless). While some fans are getting drunk w/ the success, most have been snake bitten enough to realize that ND is a year or two away from vying for a NC. Based on the schedule going into the season, expectations were low for most sensible fans. Yes they haven’t blown out Purdue & Michigan but that’s on the offense….their D held up their part of the bargain. In closing, I’m just happy they’re exceeding expectations & competing.

  47. Deb says: Oct 15, 2012 12:51 PM

    @florida727 and irishdodger …

    Thanks for the assessment on Notre Dame. Intended to flip over and watch some of their game with Stanford but was caught up in the LSU game. So I haven’t really watched them since the Navy game. It is nice to see them contending again. I always loved to hate ND, which is more fun if they’re a threat 😉

    florida727, I don’t disagree on Bama’s schedule. It looked much tougher before the season started, but some opponents aren’t as tough as they appeared going in. Still, LSU is always a challenge, especially in Baton Rouge. I’d never count out any SEC opponent.

  48. Deb says: Oct 15, 2012 12:55 PM

    @atwatercrushesokoye …

    No problem. It doesn’t bother me that some people weren’t entertained in January. I was having a blast 😀

    But you’d think someone naming himself for Steve Atwater would have a greater appreciation for defense.

  49. frug says: Oct 15, 2012 12:56 PM


    UCLA has also never played a I-AA. It’s just those three.

  50. blitz4848 says: Oct 15, 2012 1:15 PM

    Notre Dame will get “blown out” by Oklahoma.

    Notre Dame is slowwwwwwwwww!

    ND has played ONE road game this season. They are still home this weekend.

    Their games AT Norman & in LA will be blowouts

  51. blitz4848 says: Oct 15, 2012 1:21 PM

    @ omniusprime

    Oregon is a fun watch but what makes them #2?

    They haven’t played any teams with a “Top 50” defense!!!

    FYI–Oregon’s SOS is 61st vs Florida’s 9th
    Florida also has won 3 conference road games

  52. florida727 says: Oct 15, 2012 2:00 PM

    “blitz4848”, I’ll respectfully disagree with the blowout references. I think Notre Dame is good, if not “very good”, so I’m expecting them to give both Oklahoma and USC a pretty good effort. Still don’t think they have the weapons (or as you pointed out, the speed) to play with either team, but I think they have a chance to be competitive because of Kelly’s scheme. That’ll keep them reasonably within reach, for at least a good portion of both games. Watch out for the respective 4th quarters of each game though.

    Regarding your strength-of-schedule reference, just fair warning, the SEC haters will jump on your reference to Florida’s being 9th, because they’ll claim the “SEC bias” contributes to that (supposedly) inflated SOS ranking. The Gators have only had one out-of-conference game, as you know, and it was Bowling Green. BG had a terrific team within the past couple of years, but are just 4-3 this year AND Florida only beat them 27-14, and it was in Gainesville. So the haters will say ALL of the SEC teams SOS ranking is inflated because they play each other and when two Top “x” teams play each other, of course their respective SOS’s will be high. To which I always respond: every conference has had its opportunity to knock the SEC off its perch in 5 of the last 6 national championship games. They’ve failed every time. That’s a FACT, cannot be disputed, and until someone beats an SEC team when it matters most, the rest of your argument is moot, it’s nothing but jealousy and hate. Go ahead, thumbs-down it all you want. Scoreboard.

  53. clonefan says: Oct 15, 2012 3:23 PM


    I prefer to think of myself as a “hoping the SEC finally loses” person….

    I don’t personally have anything against the SEC and agree completely that until they are knocked off, they are the kings…

    But I didn’t like that nobody was given the chance last year. Sure there were going to be people in the SEC upset if Bama didn’t play in the NC, but no one could whine about the SEC if LSU defended the crown against a non SEC foe….

    I anxiously await the semi-playoff that will allow multiple conferences and more than one team from a strong conference, which is exactly what was needed last year. It may have ended exactly the same…

    And, NO I wouldn’t give back my Clones victory over OSU to let them play LSU last year….

  54. florida727 says: Oct 15, 2012 4:55 PM

    “clonefan”, appreciate your comments. I was probably one of the few SEC fans that did NOT want a rematch. Yeah, I get it, good for the conference, blah, blah, blah. But the other teams, unfortunately, did a pretty good job of eliminating themselves by losing to teams they had no business losing to.

    You’re right though… once the semi-finals hit, only those ranked 5-thru-8 will complain about their teams not getting in. I can live with that… or at least until Florida is ranked #5, or #6, or…

  55. Deb says: Oct 15, 2012 5:39 PM

    @florida727 …

    Well, there was you … and the entire LSU fanbase LOL

    No, once the semi-finals hit, we’ll still have the potential for a title game featuring two teams from the same conference. If that happens, many more people will be whining than those ranked 5 thru 8.

  56. godzilla111111 says: Oct 15, 2012 8:21 PM

    Stop the censorship you gutless left wing control freaks.
    MSNBC your Master-commie rot 24/7.

  57. jintzforever says: Oct 15, 2012 9:24 PM

    Florida 2? Really?

  58. twoody50 says: Oct 16, 2012 7:53 AM

    Once you rank a team in preseason they generally stay there unless beaten. A highly ranked Michigan team lost and fell far. A highly ranked LSU team lost and dropped nowhere. Same with S. Car. The BCS will do what they can to keep the SEC ranked high. Hopefully the computers will weed out the slugs.

  59. normtide says: Oct 16, 2012 10:20 AM

    Hmm, the computers have Florida #1, ND #2, Bama #3, and Oregon #6. Not sure which slugs you want weeded out.

  60. clonefan says: Oct 16, 2012 10:49 AM

    @ Deb

    I would have been pefectly happy last year if there were 4 teams initially and it still wound up Bama Vs LSU. I just wanted the other conferences to have a chance to either prove they were better or for the SEC to shut them up…

    In a four team playoff I would have been much happier and readily admittted the SEC was better. As it stands the SEC only had to beat the SEC last year to win the NC (A small stretch, but not much and you get it). You’ll never satisfy everyone….

  61. Deb says: Oct 16, 2012 7:30 PM

    clonefan …

    I’d have preferred that, too. And the SEC commissioner had tried to push a plus-one playoff–but the other conferences fought it. So it’s kind of funny when the folks that didn’t want that option complain that they didn’t get that option :)

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