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Even Freeh Group member realizes NCAA wrongly punished Penn St.

Penn State University student Laura Lovins and fellow students react while watching a live broadcast of the announcement of the NCAA penalties AP

Gotham City (wrongly) believed in Harvey Dent.

Likewise, there are people who (wrongly) believed in NCAA president Mark Emmert.

The heavy sanctions levied by Emmert against Penn State in the aftermath of the Freeh report was a result of public pressure, the justification to satisfy our culture’s bloodlust and demand for instant gratification. Someone needed to get clobbered at Penn State; it didn’t matter who.

The report, a multi-million dollar project spanning eight months investigating Penn State’s (in)action into the Jerry Sandusky allegations, was designed to unearth exactly when and where university officials went wrong, as well as act as a recommendation for new university policy to prevent further malfeasance.

Instead, it became the basis for Emmert’s unprecedented ultimatum to interim PSU president Rodney Erickson: accept a $60 million fine, four-year postseason ban, scholarship reduction and five-year probation — not to mention vacated 111 vacated wins — or get the Death penalty. The whole process bypassed traditional NCAA investigative protocol so fast, it had SEC speed.

In this case, that was too fast. And that’s not just, like, my opinion, man. A member of the Freeh Group told The Chronicle of Higher Education that Emmert misused the Freeh report as a substitute for normal NCAA investigative steps. Below are just some of the quotes to the Chronicle:

  • “That document was not meant to be used as the sole piece, or the large piece, of the NCAA’s decision-making… It was meant to be a mechanism to help Penn State move forward. To be used otherwise creates an obstacle to the institution changing.”
  • The Freeh team reviewed how Penn State operated, not how they worked within the NCAA’s system… The NCAA’s job is to investigate whether Penn State broke its rules and whether it gained a competitive advantage in doing so.”
  • “The NCAA took this report and ran with it without further exploration.” 

Evidence of the NCAA’s rush to judgement is already tangible. While some coaches are claiming to take the high road of not actively recruiting Penn State players now free to transfer wherever they choose, others are much more open about it. Tennessee, USC, Illinois, Arizona and Kansas are among them.

That’s not a slight against any program pursuing a transfer — they’re doing exactly what they’re allowed to do — but in punishing Penn State officials’ criminal acts with athletic sanctions, the NCAA didn’t reprimanded the “football-first” culture in Happy Valley.

It pushed it elsewhere.

Would that have been avoided if the NCAA had gone through its traditional routine with a Notice of Inquiry, Notice of Allegations and Committee on Infractions hearing? Maybe not. The NCAA can only punish a program in so many ways because it lacks subpoena power. But at least there would have been another review, one the NCAA can directly point to as its own work rather than rely on another’s.

I’ve never been a fan of NCAA involvement with Penn State in this context, but I also realize it’s the governing body of over 300 Division 1 athletic departments. Something was inevitably going to be done.

Besides, the Sandusky story is one filled with missed opportunities and baffling dead ends to investigations that should have gone further. In an ironic twist, though, the NCAA dealt with a program that improperly shifted power to one individual by inflicting punishment in a similar fashion.

Now, anything’s possible with the NCAA outside its normal authority.

Believe it.

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93 Responses to “Even Freeh Group member realizes NCAA wrongly punished Penn St.”
  1. dannythebisforbeast says: Jul 27, 2012 3:14 PM

    NO $H!T!!!

    IT was a gross misuse of their power. Its called being thorough and objective. Emmert wants to be known as Goodell Jr. He almost singlehandedly made the decision.

    That is not how the NCAA is designed to operate.

  2. dannythebisforbeast says: Jul 27, 2012 3:17 PM

    Erickson submitted to the NCAA because a true outside investigation may have uncovered alot more about him and his cronies.
    It is totally naive to believe this starts and ends with Paterno and Spanier crew.

  3. allmyteamsareterrible says: Jul 27, 2012 3:20 PM

    Don’t care. They got fair punishment in my opinion….and I don’t care where it came from.

  4. feva4theflava says: Jul 27, 2012 3:20 PM

    Penn state voluntarily hired the freeh group to get to the bottom of the cover up, which I commend them for. They didn’t need to do that. Now the NCAA is running wild without their own investigation. This is a huge deterrent for other schools to shed any kind of light on their scandals. Why get to the truth when the NCAA will just use it against you?

  5. iloveflorio says: Jul 27, 2012 3:24 PM

    Well written piece sir! I agree 100%

  6. onceuponatimeinsports says: Jul 27, 2012 3:26 PM

    It’s over and done with Penn St fans, build a bridge and get over it…..

  7. allmyteamsareterrible says: Jul 27, 2012 3:44 PM

    I am really enjoying these fans crying about the loss of their football team when multiple people have had their lives irrevocably ruined as a direct result of people responsible for the football team and program.

    Shut up already. The sanctions aren’t going anywhere. You’re football team will be in shambles for 6 years, probably closer to 10. It’s over with. Make your peace with the situation and move on.

    Or keep whining about it, I get thorough enjoyment out of your tears.

  8. thepancreas says: Jul 27, 2012 3:46 PM

    What the hell is wrong with you?

    If the NCAA isn’t justified in smacking Penn State, why bother to even have any type of enforcement staff with the NCAA?

    Just let every do as they please, and that means, allowing senior administrative leadership hiding the actions of a serial pedophile.

  9. allmyteamsareterrible says: Jul 27, 2012 3:52 PM

    wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh my football team is bad…who cares about the coach who knowingly harbored a pedophile for 15 years….wahhhhh

    This argument about “hurting the school and students” is rubbish.

    Exxon Valdez was fined for the oil spill in Alaska but I didnt hear people saying, “what about all the other employees hurt by this that may lose their jobs! it’s not fair!”

    Penn State messed up. Bad. They were punished. Severely. This adversely effects students and faculty, but ya know what? There is really no way around it.

    I really am enjoying the lamentations of the state college crowd….please continue

  10. phillyphan93 says: Jul 27, 2012 3:53 PM

    I dont remember hearing a single Penn State fan stand up for USC when their punishment was handed down for Reggie Bush violating NCAA rules and the “innocent” players lost bowl games and scholarships. The NCAA has given these kids an opportunity to transfer and if they choose to stay its on them to build a new legacy.

  11. bigd88 says: Jul 27, 2012 3:55 PM

    dannythebisforbeast says:
    Jul 27, 2012 3:17 PM
    Erickson submitted to the NCAA because a true outside investigation may have uncovered alot more about him and his cronies.
    It is totally naive to believe this starts and ends with Paterno and Spanier crew.


    Agreed 100%. Anyone who believes that this had to do with football, is a fool.

    When you have the current State Governor acting as attorney general with the Sandusky case for 2 years and only pitting 1, ONE, investigator to the Sandusky case, while employing 14 to investigate political opponents – all while taking over $647,000 in donations from Sandusky’s charity during his election while Corbett himself was supposedly investigating Sandusky…….
    When you have the outside legal counsel of Pen State, Wendell Courtney, being asked what to do with Sandusky by Graham Spanier in 2001, and then within a couple months Courtney ends up with an executive position in the Second Mile foundation – and doesn’t do anything about Sandusky while being an executive and knowing that Sandusky may have engaged in inappropriate behavior with children…..
    And when you have Board of Trustees members with huge financial connections with the Second Mile (along with previous friendships with Sandusky), paying Louis Freeh (who has a very poor history if you actually do some research) to conduct an investigation that conveniently went into very little detail about the Second Mile connections with Penn State and current board members – you would be an absolute fool to think that the buck stops with a then 75 year old football coach, and a couple administrators of the school.
    The media just focuses on that because Paterno is the former icon and name that sells the story – but their is statewide corruption involved that leads all the way to the Governor. And I didn’t even mention former DA Ray Gricar going missing.

    Back on topic, yes the NCAA was way out of bounds here and did nothing more than try to make a political statement and Emmert grab more power for himself.

  12. mhalt99 says: Jul 27, 2012 3:56 PM

    come on Ben, you make it seem like some “rogue agent” inside the NCAA could influence leadership and decision making…or even better, as to your batman reference, could be some “Two Face” person in a leadership position, like, I don’t know, the Chairman of the Committee of Infractions and use his position to hammer a program with less then rock solid evidence, all while grandstanding and making huge and far reaching statements and sermons………….all while having been Athletic Director during maybe the 2nd or 3rd worst scandal in NCAA history involving money and prostitutes.

    Oh wait….that actually happened with a scum named Paul Dee????

  13. allmyteamsareterrible says: Jul 27, 2012 3:58 PM


    Hence my complete aggravation with the whining of penn state college. You hit the nail on the head.

  14. dannythebisforbeast says: Jul 27, 2012 4:00 PM

    Reggie bush was paid to play at USC
    that’s an NCAA Violation not a crime

    Penn State crimes were committed.
    Not necessarily NCAA violations unless you voluntarily let them hammer you

    I wonder if people even read articles or comments anymore. Article is about a freeh member. I don’t see fans crying anywhere to this point.

  15. stairwayto7 says: Jul 27, 2012 4:04 PM

    Emmert better give UNC and Miami the Death Penalty for 4 years!

  16. stoutfiles says: Jul 27, 2012 4:05 PM

    “Gotham City (wrongly) believed in Harvey Dent.”

    Dent was betrayed by the police force, which led to the death of his girlfriend and half his face being burned off. Not really his fault he snapped.

  17. billybert says: Jul 27, 2012 4:08 PM

    Really bad at cover up – the 1998 shower incident was reported by a mother to the University Police. It was investigated by the police and the state DPW. The DA listened in on a phone call between Sandusky and the mother. The police and DPW decided “no crime”. The DA decided not to prosecute.
    What did PSU cover up?
    How did Freeh decide this was total disregard for Sandusky’s victims by PSU?

  18. dannythebisforbeast says: Jul 27, 2012 4:08 PM

    @bigd. Just read this today. I guess $647,000 turns into $3 mil. Nice investment for a rape camp if you can get it. Sure somehow Paterno masterminded that too. Why no outrage? Especially if you live in PA. CORRUPTION AT ITS BEST.


    Even Corbett’s staunchest defenders are hard put to explain some of his actions in the Jerry Sandusky matter. One of those confounding actions took place after Corbett became governor, when he knew that Sandusky was the target of a criminal probe for molesting young boys through his charity, The Second Mile, and yet he signed off on a $3 million state grant for Sandisky’s charity. Frankly, Corbett’s mishandling of the Sandusky probe in 2009 when he was attorney general is even more reprehensible, but we’re limiting our bill of impeachment to his actions as governor.

  19. dannythebisforbeast says: Jul 27, 2012 4:24 PM

    @billybert. Freeh said I like to cover things up I think everyone else must too.

  20. packhawk04 says: Jul 27, 2012 4:27 PM

    I dont understand what the issue is. I really dont.

  21. surferone says: Jul 27, 2012 4:28 PM


    Being ignorant is no way to go through life son.

    Nobody paid Bush to play at USC. An agent gave free rent to Bush’s parents that lived 250 miles away and the NCAA determined that because he was a high profile player, someone should have known.

    I am happy we are going after PSU players and a national championship this year. Either and both will be a slap to the corrupt NCAA and the scum Paul Dees

  22. herbiecane says: Jul 27, 2012 4:30 PM

    Yeah, the NCAA came down hard and fast. And I’m not completely comfortable with them bypassing their own procedures to do so. Clearly, that was a PR move on their part and therefore somewhat off-task.

    We can debate whether the penalties were too harsh.

    But let’s drop the absurd notion that the NCAA was completely out-of-line here because Penn State “received no competitive advantage”from the Sandusky coverup.


    PSU absolutely achieved a competitive advantage from the cover-up. In 2001, Paterno was in the second of back-to-back 5-win seasons. EVERYONE (at least outside of La-La Land, PA) was saying how Paterno was too old. Washed up. Game had passed him by. He was only still coaching because he was chasing Bowden and the record and PSU didn’t have the balls to put him out to pasture (TRUE!).

    This scandal breaking then would have killed PSU. It would have killed them in recruiting and it likely would have been curtains for Paterno right then.

    So they covered it up. And they covered it up specifically TO avoid that disadvantage, which is another way of saying “gain an advantage”.

  23. astep1534 says: Jul 27, 2012 4:35 PM

    No Concern for Athletes at All

  24. Deb says: Jul 27, 2012 4:39 PM

    What a tangled mess we weave … Penn State’s hierarchy brought this upon themselves. It’s sickening listening to Sandusky voicemails trying to invite the shower victim to a Nittany Lions’ game after the McQueary story broke. Although no one had identified the victim, Sandusky knew exactly whose number to dial. And clearly he was still welcome on campus if he was inviting the guy to a game. If the university had indicated a willingness to take this seriously from the get-go, maybe the school would have been spared some of these sanctions. But Sandusky was still sitting in the president’s box after his arrest. The whole bunch of them should be in jail.

    However, as a devoted fan of my own teams, I’m heartbroken for the innocent players and fans who’ll suffer because of these fools. Sadly, that’s what usually happens when evil is allowed to triumph. Good people suffer with the guilty.

    Did the NCAA go too far in vacating all those wins? Yes, I think so. But the fines and other punishments were appropriate. This isn’t about buying cars for recruits or handing out a little cash. This is about leaving a child rapist free to prey on innocent kids for more than a decade. The NCAA has to say that demonstrating callous disregard for human welfare in order to further a sport won’t be tolerated. But it would have been better if they’d taken time to go through the appropriate investigative steps before reaching their conclusions.

  25. dannythebisforbeast says: Jul 27, 2012 4:43 PM

    Ok kinda splitting hairs. Giving his a plush house rent free is a financial Benefit. Sure he was sporting a nice new car in someone else’s name too. Far from ignorant. Honestly didnt really care about USC. Think most big schools do similar stuff just pay back who gave it to you and it doesn’t come out

  26. dannythebisforbeast says: Jul 27, 2012 4:44 PM

    Many fans including myself wanted Paterno to retire even before then. He should have listened to me lol

  27. 11thstreetmafia says: Jul 27, 2012 5:00 PM

    The university got what it deserved. Happy Valley fostered an atmosphere that was complicit in heinous crimes. The culture is being punished. The people that do not understand this represent the epitome of what the fundamental problem is.

  28. surferone says: Jul 27, 2012 5:01 PM

    @ Danny,

    Again, the person giving benefits to Regie’s parents was not affiliated in any way to USC. In addition, he was trying to get Regie to leave so he could represent him in his pro career.

    This is all in the NCAA report and it is why every last Trojan hates the NCAA, Paul Dees and the rest of the infractions committee including the representatives from two of our competitors in ND and Oregon.

  29. dannythebisforbeast says: Jul 27, 2012 5:16 PM

    11thstreet the culture? Little known fact the culture at a lot of big football schools is All about football and the $$. NCAA Isnt changing tha and doesn’t want to

    USC guy your right but that’s kind of like taking $$ from an agent. Technically breaks NCAA rules?? Again I don’t really care it’s not something I see as the worst thing in the world. School
    Makes $$ but players should stay poor. I never got that.

  30. dannythebisforbeast says: Jul 27, 2012 5:20 PM

    @deb I see where your coming from

    They definitely jumped the gun. Say for example Spanier,Curley and schulz are acquitted of any charges. I know their convicted by the public but they may look bad on NCAA.

    Penn state sealed their own fate with Freeh report. An NCAA investigation probably wouldnt have found a whole lot.

  31. maynardstool says: Jul 27, 2012 5:32 PM

    Yeah the school that kept its “iconic” head coach that covered up this disgusting mess didn’t deserve any punishment did they?

    The pedophile is in jail and joepa is in the ground. I agree that it sucks for the players, but they have the option to transfer and play this year.

    For the rest of the administration at that school I feel no pity for. Stuff like that doesn’t happen for that long without a lot of people knowing about it. Karmas a bitch and you just pissed her off!

  32. rajbais says: Jul 27, 2012 5:38 PM

    That is a smart person because Bobby Knight and Bob Huggins never got punished for their actions; neither did any of their prior employers!!!

    Mark Emmert displayed cowardly reaction to PR pressure that featured student-payment advocates acting like hypocrites!!!

    Now the NCAA will have too much oppressive power because everybody was advocating for Penn State to get penalized because of the other schools that were penalized for illicit benefits!!!

    Mark Emmert can be credited for sticking by his word, but when he does not want these students to benefit more when they are being used as free labor and the NCAA basketball and football revenue is used for all the other sports that’s oppression on his part!!!

    Back when there were only three channels a scholarship was arguably enough, but there is too much money being made off of the cheap labor. That leads to coaches becoming powerful enough to cover up for guys like Jerry Sandusky and that means the NCAA is doing a disservice to the students because it is solving no problem when Paterno’s level of power was.

  33. rajbais says: Jul 27, 2012 5:39 PM

    Revise the rulebook, first. Then reimburse the unfairly punished and after that go after the real problem makers.

  34. surferone says: Jul 27, 2012 5:47 PM

    @ Danny,

    Alright, you are coming around. I too agree, what Regie was associated with technically breaks the rules and there should have been some commenserate punishment. Why we are so pissed is that the sanctions in no way fit the infractions.

  35. frug says: Jul 27, 2012 6:02 PM


    “Gotham City (wrongly) believed in Harvey Dent.”

    Dent was betrayed by the police force, which led to the death of his girlfriend and half his face being burned off. Not really his fault he snapped.

    The explosion may have pushed him over the edge, but Dent was Two Face well before then. He abused the power of his office to advance his own career all while claiming to be incorruptible. Go back and watch the scene in TDK where he talks to the mayor. He flat out admits that the charges from his mass arrests will never stick but convinces the mayor to let him do it anyways by pointing out the political benefits.

    He should never have been believed in.

  36. dannythebisforbeast says: Jul 27, 2012 6:11 PM

    Harvey Dent or Tom Corbett?

  37. thraiderskin says: Jul 27, 2012 6:21 PM

    The source from the Freeh group is 100% right… but the report was used and the punishment was dealt out. Since PSU has already agreed to be punished by the NCAA, there is little for them to do without taking another PR hit. The NCAA polices competition and protects student- athletes. They did neither in this case, plain and simple.

  38. j0esixpack says: Jul 27, 2012 6:34 PM

    All this stuff about NCAA due process is BS

    Penn State basically waived a trial and accepted the plea bargain – and they generally resolved this prior to training camp to minimize the impact to some of the collateral damage of the sanctions.

    What’s so bad about that from either side?

  39. justlovethegame says: Jul 27, 2012 6:36 PM

    The pathetic drivel spewed by so many JoePa and PSU haters is recognized by even us non-PSU people exactly for what it is……a tremendous public display of “we’re lazy, we don’t read, we don’t think for ourselves, and we gulp down as much crap as the media can shove in front of us…..oh, and we love watching anyone or anything that is even remotely successful fall down, because it makes our incredibly small lives seem less of a failure.”

    Did you actually even READ any of the Freeh report? Doubtful….highly doubtful. What a travesty to even be remotely considered a well-written and thorough professional document. Many, many uses of innuendo and opinion….not even close to being built on a solid foundation of proven information. Sad…..viewed by so many as the whole truth, when even a member of the Freeh investigative team has publicly stated today that the NCAA should not have used it as a basis for any decisions regarding punishments of the university. And ironically, Freeh’s professional history is certainly less than stellar…..

    Good grief, PSU haters….JoePa has already received his judgment. On a much bigger stage, with MUCH greater consequences, than any of the arcane crap you want to lather yourselves up with……grow up. None of us know what Joe Paterno’s judgment was…….SO WHAT ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT? Do you somehow think that you could possibly say something about Joe Paterno that matters in any context? Get a life.

    Taking away 100+ wins from a coach or a university. NOW THAT’S SERIOUSLY FUNNY! Ummmm…let’s see, a question: How do you “un-win” a game?? Answer: YOU CAN’T. Everyone knows who won an event that is NOW OVER. What? You say that you’re working on a time machine to unwind the time/space fabric so you can go backward in time and engineer some “un-winning”? Cool. Let us all know how that works out for you. And while you’re at it, make sure you stop by and push that Jerry Sandusky dirtbag in front of a bus before he gets to any kids, so that everyone’s pain can be avoided. Otherwise, come to grips that Joe Paterno is still the winningest coach in the history of college football, regardless of what some plaque or document or NCAA goofball says or what you want to think in your own atrophied mind. Reality, what a concept.

    Emmert….wow, scary dude. The hysterical use of tyrannical powers, based on the Freeh report? A total PR disaster….and ALL colleges better run for the hills, now that the NCAA allows the bossman to do whatever the hell he wants. Get it? “We’re the NCAA….we don’t need no stinkin’ rules……let’s just tell the bossman to do something so the uneducated masses think we all know what the hell we’re doing. And remember….football can never be more important than the school. So, please….all universities that are desperate to win, go raid the PSU program for players you need now!” Hypocrisy defined. Hooooo….boy!

    Try reading and digesting some broadly-gathered information on your own, discuss it with a diverse group of people…..think! You might learn something balanced and meaningful.

  40. anonymouslyanonymouscommentor says: Jul 27, 2012 6:38 PM

    Wow. Opinions here change faster than the weather. On Monday this wasn’t enough. Now they were completely out of line. What happened?

  41. maynardstool says: Jul 27, 2012 6:39 PM

    Yeah well Bob Knight and Bob Huggins never took advantage of their position of power to MOLEST kids.

    Yeah they both have their ethical flaws, but no sane person can possibly equate their flaws to what those scumbags did/covered up in State College.

    It’s a inexcusable offense for any person to commit, but for people of power/authority it’s particularly egregious IMO

  42. psunick says: Jul 27, 2012 6:39 PM

    Harvey Dent or Tom Corbett?

    Best comment of the month.

  43. whoisthatteam says: Jul 27, 2012 6:49 PM

    I feel your pain.

    Signed, Saints fan.

  44. huskerzfan says: Jul 27, 2012 6:55 PM

    Are we no longer worried about the truth?

    A child pedophile was able to roam the campus of Penn State freely under an emitus status for well over a decade. Part of that status gave him an office and literally unlimited access to the facilities, practices, and games.

    Sandusky utilized that access to assist him in his actions against youth from an organization put in place to help children (Second Mile).

    The whole damn system was broken. From the law enforcement, to the DPW, to the Second Mile, to the administrative staff at Penn State.

    Everybody looked the other way. There wasn’t a single person throughout the past 14 years that even came close to looking out for the children that were being molested.

    Should the NCAA have laid down the sanctions that they did? I don’t think so, but at what point do we actually step in and do something that actually makes sense?

    When a man like Jerry Sandusky is given unlimited access to troubled children and the keys to the ivory tower of Penn State to woo his victims for at least 14 years, there is something seriously seriously wrong.

    How could he even get these kinds of privileges after the 1998 incident in and of itself? And then when the 2001 incident in which a Penn State coach witnessed him in the shower engaging in sexual activity with a pre-pubscent teen? And after McQueary ‘reported’ the indicent, there was no concern for the potential victim? Nobody asked whether that child was OK? Nobody was concerned in the least for his well-being?

    How does this happen?

    These are all well-known facts, but everyone is looking at loopholes or outs to find cracks in the Freeh report or to put blame somewhere else.

    Joe Paterno said it best. I should have done more.

    No sh!t. Everybody should have done more. From the law enforcement, to the psychologists, to Curley, to Schultz, to Spanier, to the janitors, to McQueary, to anybody and everybody that was around this situation that simply stood by and allowed it to happen.

    How does a 54 year old man showering in private with a pre-teen boy, that isn’t his own son, not set off alarms and whistles for anybody with any common sense? That happened in 1998.

    He said, she said, this e-mail, that e-mail. Lets get back to the original incident and figure out why nothing happened then. A 54 year old man bear-hugging a pre-teen in a shower. In a place in which he felt they were all alone and nobody else was around.

    And then later, while listening into a conversation with the mother of that child and Sandusky, and Sandusky says he wished he were dead.

    Do we really even need to get past that incident to realize there was a serious problem?

    Just a disgusting trail of lies, deceit, and cover up amongst a whole number of people and organizations that it makes ones skin crawl.

    The question shouldn’t be who was at fault, but the question should be who wasn’t at fault.

    When you can’t depend on law enforcement, supposed organizations to help children, and finally a school of higher-learning to be there to look out for the best interests of children; who can you look to for the protection of our youth?

  45. ebb5000 says: Jul 27, 2012 7:25 PM

    ncaa completely overstepped their rules. now they have decided to allow coaches to have free reign over penn state players. a couple players have changed their numbers because coaches are calling them non stop. even though they have committed to stay at psu. not only are the current players being punished on the field by the ncaa but off the field too. also for a coach to be waiting outside a guys apt is wrong. it’s one thing if the guy contacted the school. but to stalk players. i know recruiting is cut throat but ncaa is letting them go complete open season on guys under contract. this is like nfl free agency, where teams will try and talk to guys before the first day of free agency. but they will try and hide it. and they are somewhat grown men with agents to deal with that stuff. now you have 18-20 yr olds being hounded probably worse than that right out in the open. and the agency that is supposed to stop that is the one that opened the door.

    ncaa said it was alright for cam newtown’s dad to try and sell him to southern Mississippi. bc there was no rule against it.
    notre dame players raped a girl and then threatened her if she went to the cops. she ended up committing suicide. ncaa said that was out of their jurisdiction.
    baylor bball player kills a teammate, head coach tells the players to lie to the cops about it. that is also outside of the ncaa’s jurisdiction.

    and all of this was done in the name of the victims, but you had a couple of the victims come out against the sanctions and the statue removal. at least they should have been talked to.

  46. barbeaux says: Jul 27, 2012 7:38 PM

    It’s odd how Penn St Football is being painted as the biggest victim in this. Those children were the main victims.

  47. barbeaux says: Jul 27, 2012 7:40 PM

    The problem was that Penn St’s football administration led the university’s administration down a bad path. Both have to pay a price.

  48. 10kmp says: Jul 27, 2012 7:44 PM

    I cannot understand why the B1G, SEC, PAC12 and BIG12, as college footballs most powerful conferences, continue to let the arcane, archaic and just plain simple minded NCAA bully them. The NCAA is bureaucracy personified. Its rules inane, and its “leaders” more concerned with public perception than with actually getting it right. The power conferences should cede from the NCAA, form their own association, and play for their own national championship.

    I am in no way a PSU supporter/fan. I’ve thought, for many years now, that Joe Paterno was an arrogant, egocentric little turd. I never in a million years though imagined the guy was evil. Sandusky, Paterno and Spanier are evil. Period. Yet who is paying the price for this disaster? The current staff and the kids, none of whom had ANYTHING to do with any of this.

    Way to go NCAA! You have royally F’d up yet another case. What a pathetic joke…

  49. handsofsweed says: Jul 27, 2012 7:55 PM

    “And that’s not just, like, my opinion, man.”

    Some new sh*t has come to light, man.

    I gotcha, Dude, and I abide. Great reference.

  50. dannythebisforbeast says: Jul 27, 2012 8:18 PM

    Great thread! Lots of debate with minimal childlike behavior.

  51. mungman69 says: Jul 27, 2012 8:20 PM

    Kids were RAPED. That’s the whole point. These scumbag leaders couldn’t have cared less about these RAPED kids. Protect the football program and screw the kids.

  52. thraiderskin says: Jul 27, 2012 10:51 PM

    barbeaux says:Jul 27, 2012 7:40 PM

    The problem was that Penn St’s football administration led the university’s administration down a bad path. Both have to pay a price.

    Those boys were the victims of a terrible criminal act, PSU football was the victim of a terrible abuse of position and power. This article is “evidence” of how that abuse of power should have never been. I do believe PSU football was a victim to an abuse of power.

  53. powercorrupts2 says: Jul 27, 2012 11:23 PM

    The Freeh Report is an ex parte document written in a prosecutorial fashion, with no concern for exculpatory evidence, that has no testimony from the parties it indicts, that has conclusions that do not follow directly from the facts/evidence, uses a hindsight perspective to criticize people for things they had no knowledge of, did not prove mens rea, etc. And this report is then used to punish them. This sounds like a totalitarian state and not a society with due process and the opportunity to prove innocence. Or perhaps you favor the tyranny of the mob.
    It only requires an average intelligence and a mind that is free of preconceptions and media created biases to examine the information in the Freeh Report. The 1998 incident was thoroughly investigated and concluded: Sandusky showered with a boy in an open shower facility after they engaged in athletic activity together and “no sexual assault occurred”. No charges were filed. There was nothing to conceal or cover up. The 2001 incident hinges on McQueary’s story. Unfortunately, he changed it several times. If you want to believe that there was a cover up at this point, then you have to believe at least McQueary’s altered 2011 story that he heard/saw something that could have been sexual and extrapolate it to “a boy was raped”. You can then generalize your assumptions to “Paterno, Schultz, Curley, etc. were lax in their treatment of McQueary’s story because they were covering up and protecting a pedophile”. Unfortunately, there are several problems with these extrapolations and assumptions. McQueary told his story to Dr. Dranov on the night the incident occurred. Dr. Dranov is a highly trained and very reputable observer who knows the rules for reporting child molestation. He has testified under oath that McQueary said he only heard something suspicious. He says he asked McQueary 3 times if he had seen “any sexual activity” and each time McQueary answered “no”. He recommended to McQueary that he tell his superiors but not to tell the Police because he didn’t think the story met the threshold for reporting. This is the story that Paterno and then Schultz and Curley heard. They had to decide what to do with it knowing that Sandusky was an individual who had founded a charity for disadvantaged children (the 2nd Mile), had been investigated and approved for foster care and adoption and they remembered that an investigation of his showering with a boy in 1998 concluded “no sexual assault occurred”. No accusers had come forward. McQueary testified the boy he saw in the shower did not appear to him to be “startled or frightened” and did not come forward to complain. There was no obvious victim. This is all they knew. You can of course take this information as proof that they somehow knew Sandusky was a pedophile and they protected him, but I don’t think that any reasonable person would agree.

  54. 111um says: Jul 28, 2012 12:46 AM

    First, USC’s sanctions where harsh because they involved both the football program and basketball program. It was not just Bush. It was also OJ Mayo. Similar violations in two athletic programs always are punished more because of that term “culture.” So those thinking it was just Bush need to work the Google on their internet machine.

    Second, I do not think The Freeh Group is saying they disagree with the penalties. It sounds to me that they are critical of the NCAA for not doing their own investigation. While I am not for or against the sanctions I have to agree with The Freeh Group. They should have done their own interviews. Even without subpoena power they could have used the report as a bargaining chip to conduct interviews. If nobody wants to sit down for an interview they could use the report as the end all be all. Instead they caved to the court of public opinion. Took the report and stood on their soapbox and yelled about a “culture” without doing an investigation.

    Hypothetical question. Since the NCAA did not do an investigation. What happens if in a year or so it comes out that the report was completely fabricated to protect the board of trustees(not that I believe that). Is the NCAA going to remove the sanctions.

  55. tommy57 says: Jul 28, 2012 12:48 AM

    Huskerzfan nailed it: “No sh!t. Everybody should have done more. From the law enforcement, to the psychologists, to Curley, to Schultz, to Spanier, to the janitors, to McQueary, to anybody and everybody that was around this situation that simply stood by and allowed it to happen.”

    The trick is to correctly identify the “anybody” and “everybody” what could have acted and failed – they deserve the punnishment.

    My US Marine Corps brother had a tee shirt that read “Kill Them All – Let God Sort Them Out.” NCAA has same mentality.

  56. dmcgrann says: Jul 28, 2012 12:53 AM

    You folks don’t seem to understand one crucial component of the whole matter. Yeah, maybe the Freeh Report wasn’t supposed to be taken as “gospel”. Maybe the NCAA “rushed to judgment”.

    The crucial thing is that Penn State agreed to the sanctions, and, as part of that agreement with the NCAA, accepted the Freeh Report as the truth.

    Argue all day long if you want about fairness and the NCAA’s power, but it’s a done deal. Penn State has agreed that the Freeh Report is accurate, at least as far as the NCAA is concerned. Penn State has agreed to the NCAA sanctions. No “take backs”.

    If you disagree, it’s not a NCAA problem, it’s a Penn State problem.

  57. houndofthebaskervols says: Jul 28, 2012 1:02 AM

    @ powercorrupts2

    You are of course absolutely 100% correct. Now try and convince all these lunatics they got it all wrong!

    Everybody wants to jump to conclusions and judge in retrospect what they believe happened 10 years ago, rather than judging what actually happened. I’ve read the Freeh Report and I do not understand how they drew their “conclusions” from their own report, because the content doesn’t support it and I seriously doubt anybody at the NCAA read the thing, the headlines were more enticing I suppose.

    And your comments about Dranov are also correct… he didnt tell his father, he didn’t tell Dranov, and he sure as hell didnt tell Paterno! But now McQueary has testified that he withheld nothing, which makes him a damn liar. Also notes and emails assembled in the Freeh Report do not indicate McQueary ever reported seeing a rape. So basically the ______ in the woodpile here is Mike
    McQueary and his every changing story. And there’s not a damn thing in that Report that even suggests that Paterno was involved in any damn cover up. What a mess@!

  58. 111um says: Jul 28, 2012 1:07 AM


    The NCAA gave them a choice between a 4 year death penalty or these. Penn State was pretty much backed into a corner.

    It does not change the fact that for probably the first time ever the NCAA handed out sanctions without and investigation.

    My thought would be why not put in the bowl ban this year if the NCAA felt they had to do something fast and only allow seniors to transfer while doing a full investigation.

  59. houndofthebaskervols says: Jul 28, 2012 1:15 AM

    @ mcgrann

    You do realize the NCAA blackmailed PSU into making a hasty “agree or accept the consequences” penalty don’t you? The NCAA set the timeline for their announcement and backed Penn State into a corner with the threat of a Death Penalty or Option B. The new president took Option B without consulting the Board of Trustees.

    Had Penn State fought this action in court they would have won, no question about that. I dont know what the thought process behind accepting the sanctions was, I can only assume there was concern about even more public backlash driven by the media, and a strong willingness to try and put this behind them and get on with the healing process.

    The NCAA went with the conclusions of the report, I dont know where you get this jazz about anybody agreeing in it’s accuracy?

  60. deadeye says: Jul 28, 2012 2:13 AM

    Penn St. cliches:

    – public pressure, check
    – bloodlust, check
    – instant gratification, check
    – rush to judgement, check

    Well done Ben, you’ve managed to utilize about two thirds of the JoePa worshipping lexicon in one article.

    Question, why did the NCAA have to do further investigation if the Freeh report was accurate and the BoT stood by the results? Were the facts inaccurate? Were the conclusions illogical? And if either of these is true why did the BoT endorse it’s results at all?

    So now we learn the report was “misused”, I see. When seeking a slap on the wrist, admit to damning “mistakes” and vow they will never happen again. If genuine punishment comes, question all sources of information including the ones you supplied. It wasn’t wrong, but it was misused.

    PSU is disgusting. The head coach, president, and AD all cover up a child rapist for the benefit of the football program and an elderly coaches shot at a record. And the alumni all cry foul when punishment comes. Pathetic.

  61. tommy57 says: Jul 28, 2012 3:53 AM

    @ deadeye

    Question, why did the NCAA have to do further investigation if the Freeh report was accurate and the BoT stood by the results? Were the facts inaccurate? Were the conclusions illogical? And if either of these is true why did the BoT endorse it’s results at all?

    Answer – because the purpose of the Freeh report was to investigate the circumstances of what happened and who was involved; that is, who did what to whom, who knew about it and should have acted, who acted and who did not and, perhaps, why not. I don’t think the ‘why not’ was every really answered other than to speculate (probably correctly) that it was to protect the athletic program.

    NCAA, in response trotted out the same, standard sanctions, but enhanced to suit the circumstances, as they saw it. This was the failue – NCAA should have realized these circumstances went far beyond the normal rules infractions – they (NCAA) were completely out of their depth on this and should have deferred to the criminal prosecution system. While taking away the team wins, yes they succeed in removing Joe Paterno’s name from the record books, but everyone knows they won the games.

    In the absence of a creative and meaningful NCAA response to these incredible circumstances, I’m afraid the NCAA have only served to highlight their lack of credibility.

  62. bobappraisals says: Jul 28, 2012 9:11 AM

    This is quite disgusting. Joepa knew this man was a rapist and did nothing about it. Yeah he called two days later to the higher ups about this. Bullshit. The higher ups were hired because of him. He controlled everything. To the idiots that don’t realize this, get your head out of his a$$ and figure it out. After he knew about the rape he still let Sandusky workout and come to games. Think about that scumbags. The same area where he feasted on boys the great Joepa let Sandusky work out there. Then even though he harbored a pedophile he tried to negotiate his retirement party by asking for a plane, tickets to games, and money…What??? This man is not a god, he’s a scumbag. Too many people in Pa think this man was a god. He wasn’t even close. He donated money so his ego would be more inflated and even told the president that was coming to fire him to leave his home. There are past employees that have gone on record what this man has done but nobody gave them credit because he is Joepa. He and he alone owned Penn State. All of the people involved in this case had to be hired with his approval. He had that much power. So he and he alone is fully responsible for ten years of abuse and now reports are coming out he knew earlier than this. When this comes out what will the scumbag Penn Staters say then? As for not a football issues, bullshit. He swept crap under the rug to be the winningest coach. If he was removed Penn State would have had a recruiting issue as he is the “great” Joepa which obviously meant recruits knew him. Who would you want in your home Joepa or some new guy? Please don’t make me throw up. Penn State swept this under the rug for years and kept winning because of the recruits Joepa brought in. So yes dirt bags Penn State should have had their losses taken away and yes the NCAA did act correctly. Hell Ohio State got destroyed on recruits and bowl bans from a tattoo and pants. Let alone what happened to USC. Penn State harbored a sex offender. So yes they deserved more. I wonder, if this happened at your job would like to know your school harbored a sex offender? I think not. You bunch of scumbag hypocrites. If I had a dollar every time some so called Penn State fan had a shrine to this scum but never met him, I’d be filthy rich. You are all victims to your own god complex. I believe that if you are still fighting for Penn State and Joepa that maybe deep down your guys are pedophiles. Look inside yourselves for that inner pedophile scumbags because if you agree with Joepa you are nothing more than Sandusky

  63. tommy57 says: Jul 28, 2012 10:15 AM

    @ bobappraisals

    Yes, with some hyperbole you state a just case against Joe Paterno, which I think is accepted by those of us who are his former supporters. Joe Paterno eclipsed Bill Clinton as my major disappointment in a public figure. But in your rant, you seemingly also make the case that many PSU supporters are asserting – that the NCAA punishment does not target those who were responsible. You incorrectly link continued support for PSU as a whole with continued support of Coach Paterno. That’s not the case. I wish he was still alive to witness his demise and to receive his just punishment, yet I also want to be involved with the rebulding of the PSU reputation.

  64. bobappraisals says: Jul 28, 2012 10:54 AM

    It’s a shame because once USC got hit the supporters shut up. Once Ohio State got hit the supporters shut up. Penn State has not shut up and that is what makes people outside of Penn State loathe them. I am a graduate from Penn State but I never had a god complex with the team. Penn State needs to shut up and stop crying. When I see the punk students crying talking about they have been wronged it angers me that these students can be so stupid. It’s a shame to be a Penn State grad and it was a shame when I had to take my Penn State garb down.

  65. tommy57 says: Jul 28, 2012 11:21 AM


    Again with the hyperbole “…loathe them.” “…punk students crying…” “…students can be so stupid.” I accept you’re are a PSU grade, but honestly, to me, your writing resemples more of a PITT grad.

    Nonetheless, you present an interesting contradiction. On the one hand, you criticize all of PSU for not speaking-up when they saw wrongdoing (aparantly everyone on campus knew) yet, now when we see misdirected pusnishment, we should ‘shut up’ and not speak-up. The solution here is to speak up when any wrongdoing occurs – that’s the lesson to be learned.

    If you decided to take down your Penn State garb, that’s your decision and I think we can all respect that as a very personal choice – I’m confident is writing that you’re probably not alone. But please don’t then attack those of us who chose not to roll-over to the NCAA and chose instead to fight what we see as injustice. Yes, at least four of us should have taken this same attitude a decade ago, but the renewal of PSU must start somewhere – let it start here and now!

  66. bsmith0502 says: Jul 28, 2012 11:42 AM

    No Penn State supporter is disagreeing with the facts they are just disagreeing with the degree…but the degree of knowledge does not matter…Even if you made the assumption (which would be false), that anyone involved, from the campus police, to states attorney, to local DA did not think twice about decisions that were made because it involved Joe Paterno and Penn State football would make you a fool for making that assumption. Here is a fact: DA’s don’t decide who to prosecute on whether or not they think someone is guilty or not, they prosecute based on whether they think a grand jury would indict or not and whether they have enough proof. Whether JS was indicted or not, he had no business playing in a shower with a child that age..and children that age do not go to the gym to work out and then take a shower at the gym with the coach, while horse playing. Even if technically there wasn’t a prosecution, this was completely inappropriate, and anywhere else that is not as big or as powerful, a little league team, a middle school, a high school, a daycare, that man would have lost his job.. and any community would be outraged..and 3 years later in a totally separate incident when it is suspected again…they could have taken more steps, and the fact that they didn’t, led to more victims. It involves the football program and the NCAA, because it is the football program they were protecting and not the victims, and they did not do one thing, not one action, not one letter or conversation looking out for the victims…in the report when emails are sent in code and they are not using names, people do that when they do not want someone to have information on whats going on. As coaches and administrators, who spend there careers working with children, it is there job to go further, to be absolutely sure when ever there is suspicions, or doubts to be sure that sexual abuse of children is not going on, but they didn’t go anywhere, and any person who thinks they did enough is a fool. People complaining about anyone else not getting criticized as much as Joe Paterno needs to understand one thing, not one other person involved in the State of PA, in Penn State, in college football was bigger then Joe Paterno, great power, bigger then life reputation, comes bigger responsibility, to have the legacy or righteousness, he must be the most righteous,NCAA is not perfect, most governing institutions aren’t, including the U.S. Government, and all innocent people, in some form or another pays for other peoples mistakes…The NCAA had a obligation, to make sure every coach, or administrator, or university know when neglectful decisions are made, irreparable harm is done to children, to protect an individual, a reputation or a football program, will be met with dire consequences, and if you don’t understand that then you are a fool, and to blame it on the media or a culture, is foolish, a predator raped children after 2001, because men who are paid, to educate, to lead, to be role models, didn’t do anything to deter it, but created an environment that the predator felt embolden to get away with it because had so many times before, and not understanding those things…makes the upset students, Franco Harris and Todd Blackedge and other alumni, Jay Paterno (who undoubtedly probably knew, there is no way the father doesn’t tell the son who is also a coach), trustees and anyone who is worried about the sanctions and JoePa’s legacy, a fool…

  67. bobappraisals says: Jul 28, 2012 12:01 PM

    Wow my writing represents Pitt, how funny. You obviously are having a problem understanding what is being written so here it goes in clearer terms for your understanding…”On the one hand, you criticize all of PSU for not speaking-up when they saw wrongdoing (aparantly everyone on campus knew) yet, now when we see misdirected pusnishment, we should ‘shut up’ and not speak-up. The solution here is to speak up when any wrongdoing occurs – that’s the lesson to be learned”…..There was no wrongdoing to cry about, that is the point. You and the others need to accept what happened and move on hence USC and Ohio State. They didn’t cry like little bitches when they got caught. They took their punishment like men and are serving their time. Articles on your hurting the innocent,has nothing to do with football,what about the jobs that might be lost,what about the town revenue,etc..what about the god damn kids that were raped you morons. The school harbored a sexual predator and these scumbags are worried about revenues? WTF!!! The punishment should be the least of your worries. Why don’t you try and get some respect ,if you want to rebuild the program, and talk to fellow alum’s and tell them to create a new legacy instead of worrying about the NCAA. Tell them to come forward with other wrongdoings. Taking on the NCAA will ultimately not matter,bring more press to the school and make you look like a clown. Do you think all problems under Joepa are out yet? If you do you are an idiot. There were articles written in the early 2000’s about grades. If the NCAA or the media remember these articles then it will get worse. I bring that up in case you suffer from the god complex of Joepa in which I think you do. Take the punishment like a man,stop doing interviews,shut the Paternos up,stop interviewing the idiot students who will cry for any punishment as all they are looking for is an excuse to try and be remembered and move on. People like you that bitch and complain are making it worse. If you don’t realize this, you came from Luzerne County Community College.

  68. gripless says: Jul 28, 2012 12:07 PM

    hey @bobappraisals

    The Penn State deal is a disaster but had nothing to do with you, the students… Why don’t you show some leadership and help pick up the pieces rather than be soft and take your Penn State stuff down

    If this NCAA is so righteous, why did they not match the fine issued to Penn State. Easy to enforce financial blows to an institution but if you really cared you would do something to show your support as well.

    I call on everyone to ask NCAA to match the fine to Penn State. If they truly care about the cause then show some action not donations on behalf of other people

  69. bobappraisals says: Jul 28, 2012 12:17 PM

    Hey shit for brains read my posts and you would see I sided with the NCAA. Learn to read shit for brains

  70. mgmac says: Jul 28, 2012 12:36 PM

    just wondering – what are the odds mcqueary & jay paterno coach at the college level again?

  71. tommy57 says: Jul 28, 2012 1:40 PM


    I’ll assume your 12:01 post was directed at me. Yes, I sense a PITT supporter from your writing because I grew up in Pittsburgh where nobody had anything good to say about Penn State or Joe Paterno, and they expressed their working-class vitrol in the same manner as you (disjointed and somewhat droll).

    What you fail to understand is that not everyone holds the NCAA in the same high regard as you obviously do. And I suspect USC and Ohio State acquiesced for their own reasons – perhaps they hold Dr. Emmert in the same high regard as you.

    Nonetheless, the issue with me (and others) is that we do, indeed believe there is wrongdoing to address (or cry about, as you put it). The NCAA sanctions against PSU were based on a report that was never intended to serve as a basis for that action – as one of the members admits. But, regardelss, even if true, the sanctions are misdirected and have absolutely zero impact on anyone who was involved in the activity. I am at a total loss to understand the logic (or lack thereof) that underpins your assertions otherwise. I fear it is you who ‘doesn’t get it.’

  72. bobappraisals says: Jul 28, 2012 1:57 PM

    “The NCAA sanctions against PSU were based on a report that was never intended to serve as a basis for that action – as one of the members admits. But, regardelss, even if true, the sanctions are misdirected and have absolutely zero impact on anyone who was involved in the activity. I am at a total loss to understand the logic (or lack thereof) that underpins your assertions otherwise. I fear it is you who ‘doesn’t get it”…..You are the very definition of a “rahrah” guy. You are only bitching cause there’s a venue to bitch. Coming from Pitt might answer it but hey who cares where you came from .The report, the numerous media outlets and grand jury testimony are all examples of why your are wrong. The report was made and can be utilized once it’s public knowledge against any persons or institutions it alleges in the documents. Being written by an ex-FBI agent makes it even more powerful. As for your argument of not hurting the ones involved. Wow you are dilusional, Penn State is the employer of these scumbags so yes the major player involved is Penn State. If you worked for any other job and the workers got accused of what Joepa and the others did, the job would be dealt a severe blow. Any job. They knew it was going on and even let Sandusky work out on the premises. He even has box seats. Where is the Penn State donations to the victims? Any honorings planned? In anyway did Penn State try to make amends on this issue? Nope. They were selfish and got dealt with. Maybe just maybe if they showed some remorse the NCAA might not have dropped the hammer. Maybe. The facts are so damn strong a jury would have prosecuted Penn State within 5 minutes and that was just so the jury can pee. No matter what is presented to you, you obviously will still argue that Penn State was wronged as you are dilusional. That makes “us”, the people who want to hear the truth and have already heard it, that much more happier as your thought process has lost and so have your rants. You can keep on ranting for four or more years guess what…..they are still sanctioned and there’s not a damn thing you could do

  73. falconfist62 says: Jul 28, 2012 2:10 PM

    I’m glad that happend to them. They shouldnt have tried to play blame it on the dead guy now it back fired on them.

  74. tommy57 says: Jul 28, 2012 3:00 PM

    @ bobappraisals

    Your retorts are disappointing and present no opportunity for worthwhile debate. Honestly, the content and quality of your submissions belie your assertion to be a PSU grad. As such, I’ll refrain from challenging you in future posts as I can see you are unable or unwilling to participate in meaningful, intellectual exchanges on the many facets of this issue.

  75. bobappraisals says: Jul 28, 2012 3:12 PM

    Yep, that’s exactly what I would say when you have blown out of the water with facts, no responses left and have been shown to be a clown. My words don’t have to be gentle on a football site to be educated. Don’t hate cause you have a worthless Pitt degree. You know what Pitt stands for……..

  76. barbeaux says: Jul 28, 2012 3:28 PM

    Isn’t this kind of like when a school self reports violations to the NCAA? In those cases the school imposes its own punishments, and the NCAA validates the severity of their self punishment. Penn St chartered this investigation and published it. Looks to me like the NCAA gave them two choices as to what was valid. This isn’t a case of a school currently trying to hide something and getting investigated (SMU etc). The “punishment” on these football players that everyone seems so torn up about isn’t really punishment. They still get to play FBS level football. They still get a free education if they’re good enough. Their lives aren’t wrecked like the kids that got molested. Neither are the lives of the Penn St fans.

  77. barbeaux says: Jul 28, 2012 3:33 PM

    I just find it sad that more people are upset about the status of their football team than the fact that members of the staff knew about sexual abuse of children yet did nothing about it.

  78. latchbeam says: Jul 28, 2012 4:12 PM

    Nerd alert!

  79. gmenfan1982 says: Jul 28, 2012 8:19 PM

    The ones who will ultimately pay the price of the sanctions are the future football players at penn state and the ones who won’t be able to get one of those lost scholarships. No bowls, less scholarships only hurt the players who had no involvement in this whole disaster. $60 million fine is fine by me. Especially since its going towards victim counseling.

  80. drarb says: Jul 28, 2012 9:50 PM

    SOme facts
    1. PAterno was not indicted by the grand jury – if the evidence was so strong they would have – head of PA State Police said Paterno did what the law required
    2. Spanier not charged – see above
    3. Curly and Shultz were indicted for perjury not a cover up – perjury dealing with mcqueary whose story has changed it seems with every telling
    4. Freeh as Director of the FBI gave us Waco, Ruby Ridge, derailing Flight 800 investigation plus lots more – bob appraisals – he was the director not an agent
    5. the report is long on assumptions and short on facts
    6. ncaa does nothing with ND and rape, COlorado and rape, Baylor and Murder, is crawling along with UNC and Miami and now wants people to respect them
    7. 1998 – DA does not prosecute Sandusky
    8. 2001 – we really don’t know what happened and Sandusky was found not guilty of the 2001 event(s)
    I know this hard for some folks to appreciate but the ncaa rushed in where fools and angels fear to tread – not following its own procedures limits what will happen in the future when the ncaa tried to investigate something. Emmert’s statement about football culture is from experience – he was chancellor of LSU – a program without a football culture and a high graduation rate.
    Not an apologist – just wish that the ncaa had gotten its ducks in a row before issuing any statements.

  81. Deb says: Jul 28, 2012 11:27 PM

    @drarb …

    Although I think most of the sanctions were appropriate, I’ve already said the NCAA should have followed proper investigative protocol. However, you shouldn’t read anything into the Grand Jury’s failure to indict Paterno.

    Grand juries typically follow the prosecutor’s recommendations. At that point, not as much was known about Paterno’s role, and the prosecutors seemed to think removing him from his coaching position was punishment enough. I’m sure his age and local popularity were significant factors in their decisionmaking. I’m not sure they’d make the same call now, or if he’d been a decade younger.

  82. prostock75 says: Jul 29, 2012 12:17 AM


    If you read the Freeh report, there is no crime at all that Paterno could have been charged with. By the letter of the law, he did exactly what was required and that is backed up in the Freeh report. I am not making judgement to right or wrong here, just stating a fact.
    The governor of the state who was the DA before taking office gave a check for 3 mil to Second Mile even knowing that Sandusky was being investigated. I guess he felt he had to support Sandusky and his charity for making over $600K in campaign donations. This goes a lot deeper than a 75 year old football coach

  83. bobappraisals says: Jul 29, 2012 1:00 AM

    To all of the Penn State conspiracy theorists….Penn State had a chance like every American to appeal the sanctions. They do not instead they chose to barter. Penn State admitted guilt when they plea bargained. So cry and poke holes in the report all you want, Cut and dry finished. They chose their path

  84. tommy57 says: Jul 29, 2012 1:21 AM

    PSU fired Joe Paterno. Curly and Shultz resigned and will have their day in criminal court. BoT Chair resigned. These are all positive actions that will guard against future regressions. Given the circumstances, I see no genuine role for the NCAA. To me, their actions represent a pathetic attempt to insert their relevance into a situation where they are irrelevant, and their actions prove me point.

    Artificially nullifying 111 PSU wins artificially removed Coach Paterno from the top of the wins list, and was done, in my opinion, “… to satisfy our culture’s bloodlust and demand for instant gratification” (Ben Kercheval). I also believe the NCAA sanctions would, in their viewpoint, send a strong message to PSU and to other schools that such behavior would not be tolerated!!! So, we can now all pretend that PSU didn’t win those games; but, in reality, it’s meaningless and so some extent reveals the ineptitude of the NCAA as a governing body that is limited to their little bag of tricks (sanctions) that they apportion with reckless abandon. Yes, Eddie Robinson* is now the Division I wins leader with his 408 wins, but this achievement will remain tainted until another coach passes the 409 win mark (set by Paterno). Robinson has the title, but the circumstances of how it was achieved detract from the incredible feat of winning 408 games. It’s a bit like Barry Bonds – yes, he’s the home run leader with 762, but many believe this was achieved through the addition of chemical additives to his body. Many baseball purists still hold Hank Aaron (755) as the true home run king. Until someone (if possible without chemical additives) passes Bonds’ 762, the title ‘home run king’ is meaningless. Same, too with the title of Division I football wins – until someone passes 409, there will always be the asterisk in the mind, and Paterno’s name will live on, an obvious unintended but predictable consequence of the NCAA ineptitude.

  85. rafterman1957 says: Jul 29, 2012 9:41 AM

    Membership in the NCAA is purely voluntary. When are people going to realize that they can do whatever they want? Penn State accepted the Freeh report as fact and took the deal, case closed.

  86. houndofthebaskervols says: Jul 29, 2012 12:35 PM

    Sheesh, I have never seen such rank stupidity in all my life. bobappraisals is setting the bar pretty high, but Deb is closing in fast. And neither one of you have bothered to read the Freeh Report, otherwise you would might find something else to pontificate about.

    And raferman, the NCAA IS voluntary. When you sign up you also sign up for revenue sharing. Leave the NCAA and you leave the umbrella of the TV contracts behind. Duh!

  87. drarb says: Jul 29, 2012 1:16 PM

    eh grand jury usually does what the DA says – you got it – the DA said not to indict Joe Paterno – the DAs I know and I know several do not really care about the person’s age or local fame – in fact local fame might work against you.
    We actually should read into the grand juries actions exactly what occurred – they could not indict Joe Paterno – no evidence he did anything wrong – in fact the head of the PA police said he followed the law.
    To those of you who say he had to know – predators are usually adept at hiding their behaviors – in fact most are found by mistake. Look at Sandusky’s wife. So even though our hindsight is 20/20 in 2001-02 there was no hindsight. Get over using today’s knowledge to judge facts 10 years at least ago.
    Finally as far as Penn State agreeing to the punishments – the ncaa offered the death penalty or a coma. THe ncaa used a report that is flawed to make their offer. Since they held the cards PSU had to go along. It is called the ncaa being predatory and not looking out for the student-athletes. It is the ncaa wanting to appear tough and in-charge — it is not about finding the facts or knowing what happened.

  88. rafterman1957 says: Jul 29, 2012 4:14 PM

    And raferman, the NCAA IS voluntary. When you sign up you also sign up for revenue sharing. Leave the NCAA and you leave the umbrella of the TV contracts behind. Duh!
    Of course, that’s where their power really is!

    What part of Penn State folding don’t you understand?

    It doesn’t matter what anyone says about the Freeh
    Report. Penn State accepted it as fact. Case closed.

  89. houndofthebaskervols says: Jul 29, 2012 5:31 PM

    @ rafterman

    I understand Penn State was backed into a corner and forced to agree or else. What dont you understand about that?

    And I dont recall Penn State making any statement that they agreed with the Freeh Report as “fact.” They accepted the NCAA penalty also for reasons unstated, you’re just jumping to the conclusion its because they “agreed with the report.” How do you know that?> You dont. Just like you dont know whats in the Freeh Report, just like you dont know the difference between truth and fiction, and just like you probably dont know the difference between right and wrong.

    Justice has not been served in this whole sad episode, except of course for Sandusky. The truth will eventually be exposed for all the rest of this crap, then your denial will be even more difficult to deal with.

  90. rafterman1957 says: Jul 29, 2012 8:29 PM

    Who’s in denial?

    Once you accept the fact that the NCAA is in TOTAL control the rest is easy.

    You keep missing the point. Your opinion, my opinion and Joe Alumni’s opinion, simply don’t matter one iota. According to ESPN the consent degree is a signed confession. Lester Munson went on about how they are usually sterile documents which simply define the settlement. Not this one, they accepted the Freeh Report as fact, it is in essence a signed a confession. Penn State was indeed backed into a corner, either sign or they were going to lose their football team for a minimum of four years.

    No one outside of the parties concerned has legal standing to challenge these type of agreements. Sure, some wealthy alumni can bring a law suit and they will simply see it thrown out of court.
    The BOT has already stated that they are not going to challenge it. Such is the control of the NCAA. I have no idea who set up the NCAA, but they ensured that they simply can’t lose. They control the TV revenue, they control college sports. Right, wrong or indifferent that is simply the way it is.

    Ask the Maryland Terrapins how they felt about losing their basketball program so many years ago because Len Bias had a nasty habit he could not control. Such is the reach of the NCAA, frankly I’m surprised that they didn’t shut Penn State down for good. But then again, it comes back to the money.

  91. packhawk04 says: Jul 29, 2012 10:02 PM

    Numerous children were molested by an old man they thought they trusted, and everyone is worried about their stupid football team.

    Let that sink in.

  92. materialman80 says: Jul 31, 2012 9:53 AM

    Penn State got what it deserved, unlike the victims who got no protection and did not get what they deserved.

  93. quancao says: Jul 31, 2012 5:27 PM

    Penn State got something. The NCAA did something. The scale has not been determined because this did not fit into the NCAA scenario for SMU or even USC. This is a criminal activity. However, the lesson to be learned from this is haste makes waste, because it is pretense of efficiency, effectiveness and even justice, when that is all it is, pretense. As most commenters have noted, this sweeps it under the carpet and it allows incidents of the same type, albeit criminal or more of the garden variety abuse of power kind, to happen, to happen again, with the same frequency, and may be with more intensity. To correct it, the Board of Presidents and Chancelors should meet and fire Mark Emmert for abuse of power and dereliction of duty. He made a lawyer decision, a typical CYA when he could have done more, a lot more for the institution he represents. He stood up there and waggered that finger at Paterno and those who covered up when he was another one who does exactly what they have all done: sweep this under the carpet and pretend it never happens. The remedies he royally put in effect were faulty, wimpy and superficial. It is like asking a child who talked in class to write 1000 times I will not talk in class. Grow up, Mark. Go do something that means something.

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